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Old 11-30-2012, 04:48 AM   #11
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The only reason I went from a 9mm to a .45 is not the kill factor. The bad guys have smarten up and are wearing body armor. You have lots of military grade hitting the market. And it is widely sold now. And some of the big zombies just will not go down with a 9mm. (North Hollywood Shooting) And the 40 was not impressive to me. The Sig 357 was very impressive. But the jump on the gun I could not stand. And the price of the ammo was scary. So I went to the XD 45. Not for the kill factor. But so I could knock them on there ass so I could get my loved ones to safety.
sad to say, but if you think going from a 9mm to a 45 on a guy wearing body armour is going to give you a bigger advantage, you might end up dead. most body armour is rated for much higher than a 45 acp. what stops a BG is blood loss or a hit that takes out the central nervous system. even if the BG goes to the ground, from a hit from a 45, if he were wearing body armour, he is still a very huge danger. in other words you may have slowed him down, but you have not stopped him. stopping him requires major blood loss or turning off his lights. if he is wearing body armour, the only thing that is going to stop him is a headshot.


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Old 11-30-2012, 05:30 AM   #12
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sad to say, but if you think going from a 9mm to a 45 on a guy wearing body armour is going to give you a bigger advantage, you might end up dead. most body armour is rated for much higher than a 45 acp. what stops a BG is blood loss or a hit that takes out the central nervous system. even if the BG goes to the ground, from a hit from a 45, if he were wearing body armour, he is still a very huge danger. in other words you may have slowed him down, but you have not stopped him. stopping him requires major blood loss or turning off his lights. if he is wearing body armour, the only thing that is going to stop him is a headshot.
The LAPD and LA County Sheriffs found out how effective handguns were against body armor during the Hollywood bank robbery. Multiple hits with 9mm and .45 did nothing to phase the robbers until bullets found gaps in the armor and rifles got on the scene.


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Old 11-30-2012, 05:46 AM   #13
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The LAPD and LA County Sheriffs found out how effective handguns were against body armor during the Hollywood bank robbery. Multiple hits with 9mm and .45 did nothing to phase the robbers until bullets found gaps in the armor and rifles got on the scene.
and one of those committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with his own pistol!

if, in the unlikely event have to shoot a BG center mass and i noticed there wasn't any major blood loss, i would seriously have to consider going for a head shot!

a person wearing body armour getting shot is probably the equivalent of getting punched in the stomach with a fist. how hard or big the fist would be comparitive to what caliber being shot. point is, the BG is only slowed down, not stopped by any means.

another point is, relying on a one stop shot, irregardless of caliber IMO is playing foolish. i don't care if i carry one of my small 380's or one of my 44's or 45's, i for one am not going to rely on just one shot. even in the home and i have access to my 12 ga., still not going to rely on just one shot to stop a BG. one shot stops look good on TV or the movies, but reality is fickle bitch!
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:03 AM   #14
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and one of those committed suicide by shooting himself in the head with his own pistol!

if, in the unlikely event have to shoot a BG center mass and i noticed there wasn't any major blood loss, i would seriously have to consider going for a head shot!

a person wearing body armour getting shot is probably the equivalent of getting punched in the stomach with a fist. how hard or big the fist would be comparitive to what caliber being shot. point is, the BG is only slowed down, not stopped by any means.

another point is, relying on a one stop shot, irregardless of caliber IMO is playing foolish. i don't care if i carry one of my small 380's or one of my 44's or 45's, i for one am not going to rely on just one shot. even in the home and i have access to my 12 ga., still not going to rely on just one shot to stop a BG. one shot stops look good on TV or the movies, but reality is fickle bitch!
That's one thing I thought my wife to do. If you ask her what to do if you have to shoot someone she will say "double tap to the chest and try for one in the head on the way down"
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:11 PM   #15
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I have had other facts given to me. And they have not been by the FBI. They still think a 40mm is a suitable police round. I have read to many to many medical reports that have contradiction facts. I will stick to my 45ACP with the facts given to me. By people who have first hand personal knowledge. Theory and Reality are two different things. But I thank you for the numbers.
Well I have both (research and first hand expertise) and the terminal effect of your 45 and my 9mm, with the best defence ammo available, are realistically the same. But as you said, to each his own. I do prefer a gun with less recoil, smaller in size, and a higher basic load (more mag capacity) if I find myself in harms way ( and I have been in harms way many times in my life)!
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:28 PM   #16
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Who the hell wears body armour? Besides the LA thing. Most BG's don't have flak suits.
Within 5 to 10 feet most anyone should be able to do a head shot from the hip. Double taps to the chest are BS if you think there is any armour. The first shot is what counts. "There is no second place winner".
The sure immediate stop of body function is a hole thru the back of the brain, achieved, depending on angle of shot, from under the chin to the eyes and nose.

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Old 11-30-2012, 11:07 PM   #17
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Who the hell wears body armour? Besides the LA thing. Most BG's don't have flak suits.
Within 5 to 10 feet most anyone should be able to do a head shot from the hip. Double taps to the chest are BS if you think there is any armour. The first shot is what counts. "There is no second place winner".
The sure immediate stop of body function is a hole thru the back of the brain, achieved, depending on angle of shot, from under the chin to the eyes and nose.
And again, in a central nervous system hit, both rounds are about equal.

A central nervous system hit (hit to brain or spinal cord) is about the only way you are going to get a one shot stop, other than emotional response from the targeted individual. IF the brain and spine are missed, and the bad guy doesn't freak out, or emotionally retreat, teh next thing to stop them is blood loss. To accomplish that there has to be a hit to a major blood vessel or blood filled organ or enough tissue damage to make massive blood loss occur. That is not likely to happen instantly. So to increase the rate of blood loss, more than likely, more than one shot from a handgun is going to be required.

I do agree that first shot and it's placement are critical but, I think it is best to advise anyone carrying for self defense to be prepared to fire more than one shot, and to be prepared to empty the gun if needed.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:41 AM   #18
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In the past 10 years Dallas bad guys have been wearing body Armor. They were caught by being stupid in other ways and by good detective work. Most to all were wearing the same grade of armor worn by patrol officers or better. Houston, not so much. And I never stated one shot. Start low finish high. And do the double tap tango all the way up.

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Old 12-01-2012, 12:55 AM   #19
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In the past 10 years Dallas bad guys have been wearing body Armor. They were caught by being stupid in other ways and by good detective work. Most to all were wearing the same grade of armor worn by patrol officers or better. Houston, not so much. And I never stated one shot. Start low finish high. And do the double tap tango all the way up.
please post some links to verify this. as this is the first i have heard of more than an isolated incidence in a BG wearing body armour.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:14 PM   #20
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A poster used he term 'kill factor', what is that? That's a new one on me and I have been in the business of testing and research for 25+ years!
Almost any body armor will stop a handgun round, thus the 'two to the body one to the head' drill we were required to shoot to qual. But the probability of a 'civilian' being confronted by an attacker wearing body armor is EXPREMLY low.



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