[25-5]

I have not seen this comparison before. No matter the theories, I don't want to catch any of them.

[axxe55]

i have seen some similar before. shows the expanded diameter isn't as great as many would think. and if you put up the penetration comparison, there isn't as huge a difference in depth when using the same type of bullet in all the calibers tested.

makes me not be as concerned if i decide on using a 9mm vs. a 45!

[SSGN_Doc]

Look like Winchester SXT projectiles.

[CeltKnight]

I doubt the human body knows the difference either. Those big bullets are comforting ... but so are more bullets in the magazine.

[SSGN_Doc]

Originally Posted by VannMann

The only reason I went from a 9mm to a .45 is not the kill factor. The bad guys have smarten up and are wearing body armor. You have lots of military grade hitting the market. And it is widely sold now. And some of the big zombies just will not go down with a 9mm. (North Hollywood Shooting) And the 40 was not impressive to me. The Sig 357 was very impressive. But the jump on the gun I could not stand. And the price of the ammo was scary. So I went to the XD 45. Not for the kill factor. But so I could knock them on there ass so I could get my loved ones to safety.

You do realize that a .45 doesn't actually hit with a much larger amount if energy than a 9 mm, right? A 115 gr 9mm bullet makes 395-420 ft/lbs of energy and a 230gr .45 round makes 414-425 ft/lbs.

And when you deal with body armor a bullet with a smaller frontal cross section would have a better chance for penetration. But really if you throw body armor on the equation it's really going to take a rifle or shots in unarmored locations to work.

Really most handgun rounds suck.

[powderkeg]

Originally Posted by VannMann

I have had other facts given to me. And they have not been by the FBI. They still think a 40mm is a suitable police round. I have read to many to many medical reports that have contradiction facts. I will stick to my 45ACP with the facts given to me. By people who have first hand personal knowledge. Theory and Reality are two different things. But I thank you for the numbers.

40mm lol darn Leo's towing 40 mm bofors with there cruisers Crime rate drops to zero great idea

[limbkiller]

Bullets like your picture mean nothing. I have several bullets that have been recovered in real world situations. Albeit all but one is a rifle bullet but expansion is not EVER like the tests shot in gel. When a bullet hits bone it expands way different than what is shown in magazine pics and studies. Here are 5 .270 bullets, 3 .308s, one of which tumbled after hitting a limb, one .45 acp dug from the neck of a deer, and a muzzleloader bullet .45 caliber. As you can see good expansion but not perfect like shot into gel. The .45 auto was winchester sxt and some expansion. Worked though because he was shot in the neck. Range was 8ft. The muzzleloader slug was the greatest expansion I have ever seen. Maybe we need to carry the ole smokepole for self defense. LOL

[clearsights]

Originally Posted by limbkiller

Bullets like your picture mean nothing. I have several bullets that have been recovered in real world situations. Albeit all but one is a rifle bullet but expansion is not EVER like the tests shot in gel. When a bullet hits bone it expands way different than what is shown in magazine pics and studies. Here are 5 .270 bullets, 3 .308s, one of which tumbled after hitting a limb, one .45 acp dug from the neck of a deer, and a muzzleloader bullet .45 caliber. As you can see good expansion but not perfect like shot into gel. The .45 auto was winchester sxt and some expansion. Worked though because he was shot in the neck. Range was 8ft. The muzzleloader slug was the greatest expansion I have ever seen. Maybe we need to carry the ole smokepole for self defense. LOL

+1
Also the wound channel in tissue is much different then in gel. Pictures of those wound channels tell more then the expanded bullet themselves.

[Garadex]

I'm just going to say that .45 is still the biggest.

[SSGN_Doc]

Originally Posted by VannMann

I have had other facts given to me. And they have not been by the FBI. They still think a 40mm is a suitable police round. I have read to many to many medical reports that have contradiction facts. I will stick to my 45ACP with the facts given to me. By people who have first hand personal knowledge. Theory and Reality are two different things. But I thank you for the numbers.

I was commenting specifically on the thought that a .45 was going to knock a person wearing body armor "on their azz". The physics just doesn't work out that way. No pistol round is going to knock a person weighing over 100 lbs down unless it would also knock the shooter down.

Handgun bullets work on stopping people by either hitting the central nervous system or through blood loss. On that second point you could have a valid reason to select a larger bullet, but the diameter of the bullet isn't the only factor contributing to blood loss.

So, I hope you didn't take the point I was trying to make as something more than the fact that a .45 will not knock someone down espescially if it doesn't make it's way into the body. It may make them think twice about what their doing, but if it would, then most other handguns delivering similar energy would as well. If a body armor clad badguy does fall over from a pistol shot it is probably from fear, not physics.

I carry .45s and 9mms interchangeably.