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-   -   Boattail bullets (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f66/boattail-bullets-85605/)

RfMcRae 03-02-2013 06:24 PM

Boattail bullets
 
I want to start long range shooting and have read that using ULD rounds can increase the time the bullet stays above supersonic. Anybody know of using boattail rounds? Cost of having them made?

Apex-Predator 03-02-2013 06:48 PM

I have used quite a few, what caliber are you shooting? Some are not conducive to very long bullets with factory twist rates.

Overkill0084 03-02-2013 07:53 PM

Boat tail bullets aren't all that special or even unusual. They fly better due to less drag from the more aerodynamically efficient "Boat tail" design.. Nothing magical though.
If you reload, you can buy the bullets themselves off the rack: http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=bullets&page=rifle&brandID=1&dis playAll=1
If you don't reload, you will be spending some serious coin on "Match ammo." It's available in a number of calibers, let your wallet be your guide. For example, know your expected ammo costs before you pick .338 Lapua over .308 Win.
One example: http://www.hornady.com/store/308-Win-155-GR-BTHP-STEEL-MATCH/
The example that makes my point on caliber choice: http://www.hornady.com/store/338-Lapua-285-GR-BTHP-MATCH/
The .338 Lapua stuff makes .50 BMG seem almost reasonable: http://www.hornady.com/store/50-BMG/

RfMcRae 03-03-2013 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apex-Predator
I have used quite a few, what caliber are you shooting? Some are not conducive to very long bullets with factory twist rates.

I haven't bought the rifle yet. Savage axis 7mm. Looked on their website and the barrel has a 9.5 twist rate .

Apex-Predator 03-03-2013 02:37 AM

7mm-08 or 7mm Rem Mag? There is a world of difference I have owned both. If you can swing the few extra bucks for a cheap 110 instead of the Axis you can have access to a strong aftermarket AND have one of the best factory triggers on the market already on the rifle. Just my $.02 I have owned half a dozen Savages.
BTW that aftermarket will become more useful as you get better with the rifle, you might opt to keep the factory trigger as you go out to 500-600yards but you will certainly want to replace the stock and might want to do a heavy barrel conversion as your skill approaches the limits of the rifle.

RfMcRae 03-03-2013 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overkill0084
Boat tail bullets aren't all that special or even unusual. They fly better due to less drag from the more aerodynamically efficient "Boat tail" design.. Nothing magical though.
If you reload, you can buy the bullets themselves off the rack: http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=bullets&page=rifle&brandID=1&dis playAll=1
If you don't reload, you will be spending some serious coin on "Match ammo." It's available in a number of calibers, let your wallet be your guide. For example, know your expected ammo costs before you pick .338 Lapua over .308 Win.
One example: http://www.hornady.com/store/308-Win-155-GR-BTHP-STEEL-MATCH/
The example that makes my point on caliber choice: http://www.hornady.com/store/338-Lapua-285-GR-BTHP-MATCH/
The .338 Lapua stuff makes .50 BMG seem almost reasonable: http://www.hornady.com/store/50-BMG/

Wow you are right. I'm new to the concept of owning a rifle. Never owned one before, just pistol and cheap used mossberg. I've always wanted to learn to shoot long range but its more of an investment than taking your pistol out with a few boxes of bullets. It's worth it now though so I'm willing to purchase a quality scope, bi pod, and other key accessories. Thanks for advice. It seems boat tail bullets aren't entirely needed. I'm definitely going to work on getting reloading supplies.

RfMcRae 03-03-2013 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apex-Predator
7mm-08 or 7mm Rem Mag? There is a world of difference I have owned both. If you can swing the few extra bucks for a cheap 110 instead of the Axis you can have access to a strong aftermarket AND have one of the best factory triggers on the market already on the rifle. Just my $.02 I have owned half a dozen Savages.
BTW that aftermarket will become more useful as you get better with the rifle, you might opt to keep the factory trigger as you go out to 500-600yards but you will certainly want to replace the stock and might want to do a heavy barrel conversion as your skill approaches the limits of the rifle.

There is a used model 111 7mm Rem. Mag. I've been looking at that is in very good condition, doesn't have the free floated barrel though. Otherwise it's the new (not used) axis 7mm -08, axis with composite stock, or stainless with scope included. Thoughts?

Apex-Predator 03-03-2013 12:16 PM

I recently bought a brand new Savage 110 30-06 w/Accutigger for $386 from the local Wal-Mart, it even came with a toy scope for my next BB gun (package deal scopes are normally really bad) those are a really good deal if you can find one. The 7mm-08 is a long way from ideal for long range shooting for the non-handloader, there is only one match bullet on the market and it has pretty lousy reviews. Your absolute best choice for long ranged shooting is the 6.5 Creedmore, which was designed from the ground up as a factory 1,000yd shooter. Speed, trajectory, drift all run neck and neck with a 178gr SMK 300 Win Mag, with less recoil then a 7mm-08, won't burn out your barrels throat after less then a 1,000 rounds like the 7mm Rem Mag can do, and best of all factory match ammo is reasonably affordable and get's rave reviews http://www.midwayusa.com/product/929586/hornady-match-ammunition-65-creedmoor-120-grain-a-max-boat-tail-box-of-20
I shoot it's much older ballistic twin the 6.5x55 and I love that gun, deadly accurate out to whatever range I want to shoot and it is perfect for deer class game, but the 6.5x55 is pretty much a "handloaders only" kind of proposition if you are looking for cutting edge modern performance, factory ammo is made at very low pressure for 120 year old antique rifles. I would really look hard for a heavy barrel Savage, or T/C precision in 6.5 Creedmore as my first choice for long range shooting, those heavier barrels dissipate alot more barrel heat so you can keep shooting longer, light weight hunting barrels get REALLY hot after only 5 shots.

Apex-Predator 03-03-2013 01:36 PM

I completely forgot to ask you your budget range, I know you said Axis so you were thinking on the cheap, let me break this down for you in three builds so you know what you are getting into.
1. Savage Axis with 3x9 Bushnell Sportsman (cheap package scope) I am going to call it 1 MOA accuracy with good factory ammo, but the scope will keep coming off of zero and it will drive you nuts, won't take you long to surpass the accuracy potential of this setup, I give is six months before you would be itching for something better or start reloading trying to squeeze another 1/4" out of your groups. Basic price to play $350+ammo crazy cheap.

2 Savage 110 with quality Nikon optic, now we are talking, night and day difference on the glass, and quality of your mounts no more chasing your zero anymore, you are still around the 1" mark and maybe a little under with good factory fodder but unlike the the Axis you can modify the rifle. Call up your favorite precision barrel maker have them send you a pre threaded barrel (yes some of them do that) and thanks to the remarkably simple design of the 110 you don't even need a gunsmith to do your bull barrel swap, the stock swap is just as easy. now you are pushing the 1/2-1/4 MOA range out to much longer ranges, getting the occasional 1/8th MOA group that makes you feel like Carlos Hathcock. Price to play aprox $450 packaged with the Nikon scope, and aftermarket barrel/stock conversions can run as low as $400

3 And this is the best option IMHO sped the little extra money to get a 12 FV or other heavy barreled Accustocked Savage so you don't need the aftermarket as much, this rifle is known to shoot 1/4" groups straight out of the box even before break in using factory ammo, shooting to that rifle's accuracy potential will take you a good long time, and then the next step is handloading. Team Savage wins top honors on the long ranged shooting circuit using nothing but off the shelf Savage 12 Series rifles. Price to play is not as high as you would think, seen the basic 12 series on sale for around $650 here, 1,000 yd worthy scopes start around $350 on the low end.

RfMcRae 03-04-2013 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apex-Predator
I completely forgot to ask you your budget range, I know you said Axis so you were thinking on the cheap, let me break this down for you in three builds so you know what you are getting into.
1. Savage Axis with 3x9 Bushnell Sportsman (cheap package scope) I am going to call it 1 MOA accuracy with good factory ammo, but the scope will keep coming off of zero and it will drive you nuts, won't take you long to surpass the accuracy potential of this setup, I give is six months before you would be itching for something better or start reloading trying to squeeze another 1/4" out of your groups. Basic price to play $350+ammo crazy cheap.

2 Savage 110 with quality Nikon optic, now we are talking, night and day difference on the glass, and quality of your mounts no more chasing your zero anymore, you are still around the 1" mark and maybe a little under with good factory fodder but unlike the the Axis you can modify the rifle. Call up your favorite precision barrel maker have them send you a pre threaded barrel (yes some of them do that) and thanks to the remarkably simple design of the 110 you don't even need a gunsmith to do your bull barrel swap, the stock swap is just as easy. now you are pushing the 1/2-1/4 MOA range out to much longer ranges, getting the occasional 1/8th MOA group that makes you feel like Carlos Hathcock. Price to play aprox $450 packaged with the Nikon scope, and aftermarket barrel/stock conversions can run as low as $400

3 And this is the best option IMHO sped the little extra money to get a 12 FV or other heavy barreled Accustocked Savage so you don't need the aftermarket as much, this rifle is known to shoot 1/4" groups straight out of the box even before break in using factory ammo, shooting to that rifle's accuracy potential will take you a good long time, and then the next step is handloading. Team Savage wins top honors on the long ranged shooting circuit using nothing but off the shelf Savage 12 Series rifles. Price to play is not as high as you would think, seen the basic 12 series on sale for around $650 here, 1,000 yd worthy scopes start around $350 on the low end.

Wow thanks for all the info. I guess I just have to weigh my options and see what best suits my direct needs. I've never owned a rifle before and don't want to buy one and then not know anything about how to care or it, sight it in, and in general make an ass of myself on the range. I may need to do some more researching about long range shooting before committing to it. I don't want to waste my money and regret jumping into it early.
Not to mention if I blow a bunch I money and don't know what I'm doing my wife will be so pissed it just wouldn't be worth it. You may have just saved me a bunch of trouble if I can convince my wife to let me have a handgun in our house which she is really against.
I really would like to invest in a good all around rifle, lord knows I would love to be the next Carlos Hathcock- ever read the book? Never hear of the 6.5 creedmore I'll have to look into that.


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