9x18mm JHP, .357 158 gr Gold Dot, 10mm 155 gr C.O.P. gelatin test


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Old 12-30-2013, 05:05 PM   #1
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Default 9x18mm JHP, .357 158 gr Gold Dot, 10mm 155 gr C.O.P. gelatin test




(Top: bare gel, Bottom: denim)








9x18mm Silver Bear 115 gr JHP fired from Arsenal Makarov* into calibrated gelatin.

BB: 602.8fps, 3.0"

4 layers of denim

Impact velocity: 1,040 fps
Penetration: 29.7"
Retained weight: 116.0 gr
No expansion



Bare gelatin

Impact velocity: 1,043 fps
Penetration: 8.9"
Retained weight: 117.0 gr
Max expansion: 0.659"
Min expansion: 0.477"



*please note, this ammunition DOES NOT feed correctly in my Makarov.












.357 mag Double Tap 158 gr Gold Dot fired from 4" S&W Model 13 through four layers of denim into calibrated gelatin.

BB: 602.8 fps, 3.0"

Impact velocity: 1,304 fps
Penetration: 23.8"
Retained weight: 158.1 gr
Max expansion: 0.534"
Min expansion: 0.449"













10mm C.O.P. 155 gr all copper hollow point fired from 4.5" barrel EAA Witness through four layers of denim into calibrated gelatin.

BB: 602.8 fps, 3.0"

Impact velocity: 1,008 fps
Penetration: 10.2"
Retained weight: 153.9 gr
Max expansion: 0.776"
Min expansion: 0.455"


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Old 12-30-2013, 05:54 PM   #2
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AWESOME! We are getting our hands on some ballistic gel for our next shooting outing! I like the idea of putting different clothing items over it and firing thru it. Thanks for sharing!



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Old 12-30-2013, 06:13 PM   #3
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I am sure someone way smarter than me can explain why it traveled so much further through the denim? I'd think it'd be opposite!

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Old 12-30-2013, 06:32 PM   #4
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QG - I'm fairly sure that if you look at the 9X18mm tests, you'll see the denim plugged the hollow point of the bullet and kept the petals from expanding, thus making it act almost full metal jacket-like.

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Old 12-31-2013, 04:24 PM   #5
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That's correct. Four layers of denim is an IWBA and FBI protocol intended to simulate heavy clothing. Older (and communist) bullet designs had trouble expanding after passing through denim. Modern JHP bullets mostly work fine but will still show slightly deeper penetration through denim because they open a little later when shot through denim.

I should note that Simtest and Cleargel produce results that are generally consistent with actual gelatin but they are not the standard and I have seen a few anomalous results. My own tests are also not scientific. There are factors that I can't control that a laboratory could and I don't conduct enough shots to be statistically relevant. If you plan to shoot "ballistic gel" I recommend you do A LOT of reading on the subject. I guess the most critical part is the BB calibration. Immediately before testing, the block should be shot with a steel BB at 590 fps +/- 15 fps. The BB should penetrate between 2.94" and 3.75". If it is outside that range, the block is not correctly calibrated and results could be skewed. Tests that you may see on teh interwebz that do not show their calibration figures should be disregarded as potentially inaccurate.

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Old 12-31-2013, 05:38 PM   #6
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Why is four layers of denim the standard test for the FBI, I've never seen anyone wear four pairs of jeans at once or four jean jackets. Seems kind of extreme but I guess they have their reasons.

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Old 01-01-2014, 04:19 PM   #7
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Testing is about repeatable standards. Four layers of denim is intended to represent heavy clothing. It's true that unless you're Jay Leno, you probably don't wear four layers of denim but, it's not really about the particular type of cloth. Rather, denim is a fairly consistent and dense cloth that can provide enough fibers to clog a hollow point bullet.

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Old 01-02-2014, 11:15 PM   #8
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I use 180gr Gold dot in my 10mm. Over a little unique, not bad.

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Old 01-03-2014, 02:22 AM   #9
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20+ years ago I did the same 158 gr JHP 357 test and got basically the same results. That is why I have been trying to tell those who care not to use the 158 gr loads for self defense, they are hunting bullets. The 125 JHP'S are the best 357 caliber defense loads.
Thanks for taking the time to post this.

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Old 01-03-2014, 03:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpattersonnh View Post
I use 180gr Gold dot in my 10mm. Over a little unique, not bad.
I use 165 gr Gold Dot over AA7 at about 1,300 fps. For woods defense, I carry 200 gr XTP over 800-X at about 1,200 fps. We don't have nuclear powered bear in Arizona, though.

I believe that the greatest strength of the 10mm isn't raw power, there are lots of more powerful guns, but the versatility. I carry a magazine of each of the above and can go from city defense to woods defense just by switching magazines.


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