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Old 07-31-2013, 06:32 PM   #21
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I respectfully,
disagree Sir,

The way In figure it the performance of .357 magnum is so good, the lack of a hollow point in a FMJ is not a significant operational detriment.

But it DOES usefully expand the envelope shooting into vehicles and folks behind light cover such as vests.

For example S&B makes many different .357 Mag loads, including 2 or 3 158 gr.

one of them is 158 GR FMJ at 1400 fps thats as fast in a 158gr as the typical quality 125 gr (!), so its a real hot load with over 600lbs ft of energy .

Thats twice that of a 9 mil and almost as much as some 44 Mag.

BUT unlike the typical 44 Mags its bi-metal FMJ so you can imagine the penetration thru some light cover (steel doors, vests etc) to be even a greater than some 44 Mag loads as those are presumed by the tester to be either HP or SP.

All the while its speed and size assures good on target effect as well.
Can you explain 'good on target effect'????? You are talking about non expanding bullets, correct???
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:56 PM   #22
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Can you explain 'good on target effect'????? You are talking about non expanding bullets, correct???
Correcyt FMJ = non expanding.

For many bullets with marginal energy HP is necceessary to give it knock down power for exmaple 380 ACP/9mm Kurz

But with .357 Magnum that little "trick" seems uneccessary in the vast majority of cases.

Speaking stricly from a SHTF PoU ( not a current home defense) the extra penetration might even be helpful .

In my house for my nightstand gun I downpower 357 Magnum to 38 SPC HP anyway to prevent over penetration because its an issue.
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Old 08-01-2013, 11:43 PM   #23
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Correcyt FMJ = non expanding.

For many bullets with marginal energy HP is necceessary to give it knock down power for exmaple 380 ACP/9mm Kurz

But with .357 Magnum that little "trick" seems uneccessary in the vast majority of cases.

Speaking stricly from a SHTF PoU ( not a current home defense) the extra penetration might even be helpful .

In my house for my nightstand gun I downpower 357 Magnum to 38 SPC HP anyway to prevent over penetration because its an issue.

I'm sorry, but this just isn't supported by any data I'm aware of, either laboratory or real world (hunting/defense shootings). .357 Magnum, like other handgun cartridges, relies heavily on expansion. TSC is not a significant wounding factor at that velocity and unexpanded .357 diameter bullets do less crush damage than expanded ones.

There is no such thing as "knockdown power."

Generally speaking, increased velocity typically results in decreased penetration when JHP projectiles are used.

If your home defense weapon of choice is a .357 revolver, you would be better served both in terms of terminal effect and reduced risk of over penetration by loading a 125 gr JHP at magnum pressure and velocity. Of course, a rifle or shotgun would be a far better choice than any handgun.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:15 AM   #24
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Tyler I appreciate your original post and I think its great and I am grateful for that contribution..

But i belive you may have misunderstood my post (which was a reply I almost didnt write because I knew someone would)

None of what you wrote as an answer is in dispute and I am not at all quibbling over wounding effects as so many seems to enjoy.

I explained the different PoU I am referring to.

Cliff notes: with such a powerful round (.357 mag) I see little point in quibbling over the lost effect a FMJ is said to have over HP..... in many situations where you want the extra penetration such as some big boned animals or needing wanting to shoot thru steel doors, dry wall in a SHTF PoU etc

I am not concerned in this case about a urban carry PoU, like I explained in the original post a ways back because I will use 38 spc HP in such a case to address the overpenetration concerns.

respectfully,

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Old 08-02-2013, 04:39 PM   #25
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I'm sorry if I sounded rude. That wasn't my intent.

Remember that as far as intermediate obstacles are concerned, JHP and FMJ act about the same. It's also worth noting that many factory FMJ loads in .357 are low power. For penetration on large or dangerous game, though, I'd agree that a heavy solid would be preferred. I have to insist that a .357 mag JHP would be more effective and have lower risk of "over penetration" than .38 spl. .38 is a really marginal cartridge.

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Old 08-02-2013, 05:25 PM   #26
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I'm sorry if I sounded rude. That wasn't my intent.

1) Remember that as far as intermediate obstacles are concerned, JHP and FMJ act about the same.

2) It's also worth noting that many factory FMJ loads in .357 are low power. For penetration on large or dangerous game, though, I'd agree that a heavy solid would be preferred.

3) and have lower risk of "over penetration" than .38 spl.

4).38 is a really marginal cartridge.
Tyler,

1) I had also heard that before but was unsure of it's veracity since it seemed counter intuitive to me.

2) I have found a factory FMJ load with 688 ft lbs though that I really like (keep in mind some of the lower powered 44 Mags sit at 700, so 688 is a LOT for a 357 mag)

3) I confess dont understand your 3rd point. Isnt the more energetic and faster round more likely to over penetrate (if all other things are equal , that is FMJ vs FMJ, LRN vs LRN JHP vs JHP etc etc)??

4) true, which is why it needs to be HP in my mind to be a useful carry round. HP in combination with its low energy inherent in 38 spc should address any concern about over penetration though.

respectfully,

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Old 08-03-2013, 05:29 PM   #27
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On #3, solids tend to penetrate more deeply with greater velocity but JHP tends to penetrate less as velocity increases.

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Old 08-03-2013, 10:26 PM   #28
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On #3, solids tend to penetrate more deeply with greater velocity but JHP tends to penetrate less as velocity increases.
Thank you I did not know that
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:15 PM   #29
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On #3, solids tend to penetrate more deeply with greater velocity but JHP tends to penetrate less as velocity increases.
This is true as a general statement.
But enter the 'controlled' expansion bullet and this is not true because the controlled expansion bullet will only expand/fragment to a certain point even if the velocity is moderately increased.Therefore this class of 'expanding' bullet will penetrate further when the velocity is increased. This is the exception, not the rule though.
In some tactical applications the non expanding bullets do have a proper application, but again this is the exception, not the rule.
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:40 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRau

This is true as a general statement.
But enter the 'controlled' expansion bullet and this is not true because the controlled expansion bullet will only expand/fragment to a certain point even if the velocity is moderately increased.Therefore this class of 'expanding' bullet will penetrate further when the velocity is increased. This is the exception, not the rule though.
In some tactical applications the non expanding bullets do have a proper application, but again this is the exception, not the rule.
Hornady XTP?
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