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Old 01-10-2014, 12:44 PM   #21
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After I bought my Mark II and I was tempted to scope it, I also questioned whether optics were kind of considered "cheating". I was told by a very wise man who posts here every day that it's not cheating to be as good as you can be to hit your target every time. I was encouraged to learn to shoot with iron sights first, though. I almost always take the scope of my pistol when at a range as the scope is zeroed for 50 yards. But when outside plinking, that scope makes shooting so damned fun!!

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Old 01-10-2014, 12:47 PM   #22
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In this area brush is very thick. You qualified in a mowed field. Here you need magnification to make a 45 yard shot consistently. Most of the places I hunt have been clear cut in the past 20 years. I need magnification to see all the limbs between me and the deer. Just 4x is plenty of magnification to make a clean shot. All the brush is main reason I hunt with a shotgun. A slug will plow through light brush and make the kill. Even the best brush busting rifle cartridges are no match for a shotgun slug in heavy brush.

Most participants in this forum have a lot of experience at a range or shooting games but they have zero real life experience. I know it to be a fact from the attacks I have endured and questions like this.

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Old 01-10-2014, 12:54 PM   #23
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I see a few reasons to choose optics.

As already stated, eye problems. Magnification bringing the target, crosshairs/dot/chevron/whatever to one focal point in the retina is useful.

Target identification. Magnified optics allow the shooter a better chance and a second chance to verify a target before shooting. Wether its the right species, right point count of antlers in restricted hunting areas or hostile vs. friendly.

Speed. With non magnified optics, not having to line up three points at varying distances is faster for the eye and the brain. Putting a dot on a target and squeezing is slightly faster than looking at target aligning front and rear sights on target and then focusing in the front sight. The eye is only physically capable of truly focusing on one distance at a time. As we get older the eyes ability to shift focal distance gets slower as the muscles and connective tissue on the lens of the eye gets harder.

Low light. An illuminated reticle or dot does allow the shooter to know where the gun is aimed in low light. Again trying to line up three objects in low light may not be fast and a target or shooting opportunity may be lost.

Non magnified red dots and holographic sights also don't require the strict cheek weld and head alignment. So faster shots can be taken as long as the dot and target are both lined up.

I do thing having iron sight fundamentals is important. Optics can fail and ruin a hunt if the shooter doesn't have irons or isn't good with them.

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Old 01-10-2014, 01:01 PM   #24
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If you can drive a stick, isn’t driving an automatic cheating?

My bolt 22lr has a 32x scope. It’s nice to see where I hit at 100+ yards and make minor adjustments without having to change position for a spotting scope.
The 22lr semi has a ghost rear and a sort of ar15 front and it’s used to hit an orange ball ‘rapidly’ and keep it rolling further and further away until I start missing (about 70 yards).
The 9mm pistol has a RMR red dot (with BUIS). I’m cross dominant and this solves that issue. I think straight night sights may have done as well, and cheaper. It also makes it easier for me to rack.
I’ve also got a 9mm carbine which I may put a red dot on, or not. I haven’t shot it much yet. I’d like to be able to see if I can hit 50+ yards with a 9mm.
And the 22lr pistol is straight stock iron, which is actually what I’m best with, but I think that's a function of 'close' distance & low (no?) recoil.

They’re all different kinds of shooting.

I’d be happy to get half way as good as Hickok45. He regularly hits a gong in the next county, with a pistol and stock sights.
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Old 01-10-2014, 01:34 PM   #25
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With a peep I can hold 2 moa from a rest. With a scope I can hold 1 moa from a rest. That is if the rifle and ammo are up to it. My old eyes will not handle open sights anymore except on pistols at very short range. Basically I am twice as accurate with optics. I am not shooting at people and hope I never have to. The only hunting rifle I have left is my 308 BLR. It is set up with a peep and fiber optic front. I can easily add on a red dot if needed without changing the existing sights. If I were hunting feral pigs I would add the red dot. The longest shot I have ever taken on an animal was 70 yards.
Just a note; Pigs dont react to green light. You can light them up with green light and use a red dot.

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Old 01-10-2014, 01:35 PM   #26
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I prefer open sight shooting whenever I can do it. It is more of a challenge and more fun in a lot of cases

When it comes to hunting, I believe the humane thing to do is make the absolute best shot placement that you can. Good glass is an integral part of this. Now, there are guys that don't care if they have to take 3-4 shots to kill a deer, I am not one of those. No matter who you are, you can't outshoot me with open sights at 300 yards if I have a decent scope. I flat out guarantee that and can back it up every day of the week, as most others here can do. So I practice long distance shooting with my hunting rifles and when long distance hunting, I use glass.

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Old 01-10-2014, 02:25 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JW357 View Post
Ok everyone. Please let me start by saying that I mean no disrespect. And I would never presume to tell any of you how to setup your weapons.

All that being said, I don't understand optics and glass on firearms.

It just seems like cheating to me. Unless you're doing actual long range shooting. I understand that.

I consider long range to be 500 yards or more. This is because the Marine Corps trained me to shoot on an M16 out to 500 yards with iron sights. The front sight post is the exact width of the target we shoot at for 500 yards. So as long as we have our windage and elevation set correctly, all you have to do is cut the target in half vertically with the front sight post, apply all fundamentals, and you'll hit the black, which is a man sized silhouette.

Now, I understand not everyone can join the military to learn how to shoot properly. But there are plenty of good trainers out there who can teach better than what I received, or at least AS good.

So, why not shoot on irons? I think they're slightly more challenging and therefore much more fun.

Most hunting occurs at less than 100 yards in North America. Yet a lot of hunters tend to load up their rifles with the best glass, even if the caliber can't really reach out as far as the round itself. Different platforms for different applications, right? I mean let's be honest - a 30-30 isn't going to reach out further than maybe 200 yards with the best ammo. Yet people load their 30-30s up with optics. I'm gonna be honest, part of our yearly qualification is shooting moving targets (walkers) at 100 yards. I learned this on irons. 200 yards is the closest distance we shoot for static targets. I learned all this on irons. Yes, we shoot with ACOGs now, and I hate them. I can use them well, but they're not my cup of tea.
So why optics? Extreme distance shooting? Lazyness? Preference? Why?

Again, I mean no disrespect. And as said, I wouldn't presume to tell anyone else how to deal with their equipment or how to shoot (just ask my wife about her pistol shooting grip!).
How old are you JW?

My 47th birthday is next week. While my eyes are not in bad shape, optics make it far easier to hit what I'm aiming at.

I'm guessing once you get older, you'll answer your own question quite satisfactorily.
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Old 01-10-2014, 02:57 PM   #28
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Ill put a holo or a red dot on my AR but that is in conjunction with my buis. I was a designated marksman in the Army so I love staying frosty and doing long distance shooting so I scope my long distance rifles. My hunting rifle depending on where im hunting ie open fields or forest makes me vary what i carry optics wise. As for scoping a lever gun the ONLY way I would consider it is if it was a repro scope that was meant for it like this http://www.possibleshop.com/rifle-malcolm-scopes.html

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Old 01-10-2014, 03:01 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seancslaughter View Post
Ill put a holo or a red dot on my AR but that is in conjunction with my buis. I was a designated marksman in the Army so I love staying frosty and doing long distance shooting so I scope my long distance rifles. My hunting rifle depending on where im hunting ie open fields or forest makes me vary what i carry optics wise. As for scoping a lever gun the ONLY way I would consider it is if it was a repro scope that was meant for it like this http://www.possibleshop.com/rifle-malcolm-scopes.html
Interesting. But, nope, I'm never going to scope my lever action rifle.
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Old 01-10-2014, 03:56 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Deer View Post
I know it to be a fact from the attacks I have endured and questions like this.
Questions like this huh? So hearing peoples personal reasons for using optics makes me inexperienced?

True I've never shot a person or hunted but that doesn't make me inexperienced. I've put more rounds down range and received better training than most people here.

Your response started out as good and insightful and then your elitist attitude showed through at the end of your post.

The attitude was unnecessary.
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