Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com

Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/)
-   Optics & Mounts (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f65/)
-   -   Moa or Mrad? So confused! (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f65/moa-mrad-so-confused-90287/)

running_fool 05-07-2013 05:51 PM

Moa or Mrad? So confused!
 
Looking to purchase a scope for my .300 wby mag. Moa or Mrad are my options for the one I want. Vortex viper pst 2.5-10x45

JonM 05-07-2013 07:24 PM

this is purely my opinion so take it as such. my preference shouldnt make up anyone's mind on what they like.

my pref is for moa.

mrad is useful in a sniper type application where your engaging many multiples of enemy terrorists meaning to do you harm.

moa is great for hunting and most single target use since it melds well with most civilian rangefinders and ballistic charts. i just find it easier to use as my mind thinks in inches not in partitions of a circle. if you have artillery training or spent years as a sniper or as a navigator mrad might come natural to you.

which ever way you go make sure the turrets and the retical adjust with the same measurement. you dont want a mrad reticle with a turret that adjusts in inches or moa or mils... or any combination like that.

locutus 05-08-2013 10:29 PM

good advice. Leave the military optics to the military users.

Squawk 05-08-2013 11:06 PM

Stick with MOA. MRAD is not very applicable for civilian use.

running_fool 05-09-2013 03:33 PM

Thanks for the good advice! I have been doing a lot of research and I agree with your recommendations.

JonM 05-09-2013 06:48 PM

dont get me wrong mrad can be very useful if your trying to eradicate large populations of fast moving hogs or yotes. but it takes training and lots of it, to use it effectively.

but for things like that a nikon spoton type bdc might be more applicable... anyway just my thoughts on it.

Apex-Predator 05-09-2013 08:55 PM

I love my BDC scopes :D I have three of them.

antikythera 07-19-2013 02:21 PM

stick with MOA. it is better for hunting animals.

clearwaterken 07-19-2013 02:47 PM

With so much ballistic software and tools out there, I would choose the setup you like the most and run with it. MOA to MILS, you can really dumb it down abbreviating your MILS like everyone does with MOA. Most shoot MOA thinking 1 MOA @ 100 yards is 1". This is very close but not true. Both MILS and MOA are angular measurements and being angular, have nothing to do with linear measurements like inches. We abbreviate them to inches and centimeters for simplicity as the difference is typically small enough to overlook or choose not to apply, like. 1 MOA @1k is not 10" it is actually 10.47 but most of our rifles will not shoot the .47 difference so we round it to 10 inches. Which would actually be what is called,IPHY or, "inches per hundred yards" MIL has the same counterpart called, CPHM,"centimeters per hundred meters"

With mil, it's just as easy. 1 mil at 1k is 1 meter so each click moves the impact 1/10 a meter.

We use .25" and .10 MIL. For example.

1 click with .25 MOA at 100 yards = .26"
1 Click with .1MIL = 1 CM @ 100 Meters

1 click with .25 at 400 yards= 1"
1 Click with .1 mil @ 400 Meters = 4 CM

And in top of it, if you match turrets with reticle, it's even easier. Take a shot, reference the impact on your reticle and dial or hold from what you see.

Meaning, take a shot and lets say it hits low in the ret. count the MILS or MOA it was off and re-engage. I tend to believe most people over complicate MILS and MOA way to much. If you are ranging, it can be complex when you are ranging in MILS but are converting back to inches or yards. If your just shooting or hunting, go with what is most appealing to your eyes and pocket book, it is honestly too easy to use both. If you want some clarification, shoot me a PM and I can give you some additional tools too back up the above.

And I LOATH math....

Hope this helps and does not confuse lol

running_fool 07-26-2013 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clearwaterken
With so much ballistic software and tools out there, I would choose the setup you like the most and run with it. MOA to MILS, you can really dumb it down abbreviating your MILS like everyone does with MOA. Most shoot MOA thinking 1 MOA @ 100 yards is 1". This is very close but not true. Both MILS and MOA are angular measurements and being angular, have nothing to do with linear measurements like inches. We abbreviate them to inches and centimeters for simplicity as the difference is typically small enough to overlook or choose not to apply, like. 1 MOA @1k is not 10" it is actually 10.47 but most of our rifles will not shoot the .47 difference so we round it to 10 inches. Which would actually be what is called,IPHY or, "inches per hundred yards" MIL has the same counterpart called, CPHM,"centimeters per hundred meters"

With mil, it's just as easy. 1 mil at 1k is 1 meter so each click moves the impact 1/10 a meter.

We use .25" and .10 MIL. For example.

1 click with .25 MOA at 100 yards = .26"
1 Click with .1MIL = 1 CM @ 100 Meters

1 click with .25 at 400 yards= 1"
1 Click with .1 mil @ 400 Meters = 4 CM

And in top of it, if you match turrets with reticle, it's even easier. Take a shot, reference the impact on your reticle and dial or hold from what you see.

Meaning, take a shot and lets say it hits low in the ret. count the MILS or MOA it was off and re-engage. I tend to believe most people over complicate MILS and MOA way to much. If you are ranging, it can be complex when you are ranging in MILS but are converting back to inches or yards. If your just shooting or hunting, go with what is most appealing to your eyes and pocket book, it is honestly too easy to use both. If you want some clarification, shoot me a PM and I can give you some additional tools too back up the above.

And I LOATH math....

Hope this helps and does not confuse lol

That was great and very helpful! I appreciate your time spent with this response! Happy shooting!

clearwaterken 07-27-2013 02:33 PM

Thanks and I hate too see people get lost In this stuff so, let me know if I can lend a hand.


Regards,
CK

buckhorn_cortez 07-28-2013 11:58 PM

A mil scale reticle is not metric - it has no measurement associated with it. A radian is a trig function. If you measure from the center of a circle to the edge that is a radius. If you take that distance and measure along the edge of the circle to the next point and then draw a line to the center of the circle you make a pie wedge shaped section - that is a radian.

A circle has 2 Pi radians or Pi x 2 = 6.283 (approximately). There are 6.283 radians in a circle. A "mil" is a measurement of 1/1000 so if you multiply 6.283 x 1000 = 6,283 mili-radians in a circle.

For minutes of angle, there are 360 degrees and 60 minutes or 21,600 minutes of angle in a circle.

To convert between them - 21,600 / 6,283 = 3.44 MOA per mili-radian.

So far - no fixed measurement of inches, feet, centimeters, miles, kilometers, etc. Each is just a description of the arc of a circle.

Now, if you want to use a scope with a mili-radian reticle for target range estimation you can do that IF the scope has a front focal plane (FFP) reticle. You need that because the reticle mil measurement needs to stay proportional to the amount of magnification.

One Mil subtends 3.6 inches at 100 yards, 7.2 inches at 200 yards, 14.4 inches at 400 yards, 28.8 inches at 800 yards, and a handy 36-inches (1 yard) at 1,000 yards.

So, you can use the FFP Mil reticle to estimate distances. The calculation is: (height or width of the target in yards / number of Mils on the reticle) x 1,000 = yards.

If you have a known target height - let's say 6-feet that's 2 yards. If the target takes up 4 Mils on the vertical reticle then (2/4 =.5) x1000=500 - so your target would be 500 yards away.

As you can see - all you have to do is understand the system whether it is Mil or MOA, and apply it to your own use.

I like FFP Mil reticles as they are simple to use for range estimation once you understand the system.

JimRau 07-29-2013 01:00 PM

A lot has to do with what you are use to. I grew up with MOA and even when I was a BU sniper I stuck with it because I was use to it and could us it just as effectively as MILS. But I agree for hunting, unless you are already using MILS, stick with MOA. But back then we did not have the fancy hi-tech stuff you kids have now!!!;)

buckhorn_cortez 07-29-2013 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimRau (Post 1318978)
A lot has to do with what you are use to. I grew up with MOA and even when I was a BU sniper I stuck with it because I was use to it and could us it just as effectively as MILS. But I agree for hunting, unless you are already using MILS, stick with MOA. But back then we did not have the fancy hi-tech stuff you kids have now!!!;)

A Mil scale is that confusing and difficult? Really? Then buy a Mil Dot Master calculator and put it in your coat pocket. It will even help you figure out bullet drop compensation for a given range.

JimRau 07-30-2013 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckhorn_cortez (Post 1319000)
A Mil scale is that confusing and difficult? Really? Then buy a Mil Dot Master calculator and put it in your coat pocket. It will even help you figure out bullet drop compensation for a given range.

Who said it was confusing??? :confused:
I have scopes with both. I was giving advise to a person who ask for it. Like I said, if you are already using and are comfortable with one or the other there is no reason to change. And I agree with several others, if you are not using either start with a MOA, standard hunting scope, it is easier to use and the mil dots are not need for big game hunting, although I have used both for hunting and sniper duty.
Do whatever trips your trigger. This is just my advice.;)

Gh0zt36 07-30-2013 09:11 PM

I got a ?? someone on youtube was complaining bout a shot they made.

it was a 500 yard shot with a 2 1/2" spread.

They were calling that 5 MOA.

Wouldn't that be a .5 MOA ??

As far as I know its 1" spread per 100 yards is 1 MOA so a 5 MOA shot at 500 yards would be a 25" inch spread no ?

elfmdl 07-30-2013 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gh0zt36
I got a ?? someone on youtube was complaining bout a shot they made.

it was a 500 yard shot with a 2 1/2" spread.

They were calling that 5 MOA.

Wouldn't that be a .5 MOA ??

As far as I know its 1" spread per 100 yards is 1 MOA so a 5 MOA shot at 500 yards would be a 25" inch spread no ?

You are correct, a 2.5" spread at 500 yards is 1/2 Moa.


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:41 PM.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.