How do you level a scope? - Page 3
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:02 PM   #21
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Damn this thread has my interest peaked and has caused me to think and ponder how to be able to perfectly level a scope on any platform.

Now I've used the Level Level Level gadget on the rifles I've leveled the crosshairs on and have gotten away with it as I havn't run across a rifle it didn't work on. However, it appears that there is many this gadget wont work on that I havn't run across yet.

My gun vise has a level on it and adjustable legs that allow you to level the vise. So when you set the rifle in it and clamp the forestock and butt stock into it one might think the rifle is level but it's usually not due to imperfections in the stock or the way the action is set into the stock. As little as that tollerance may be one could not truely dead on level a scope with this gun vise alone. So that idea doesn't work either.

Leveling the scope off the scope base is not a guarantee either.

Not many rifles have a level spot on the reciever to level a scope off of.

Taking the rifle out of the stock to try to find a level spot on the bottom of the reciever may be sketchey as well.

Possibly with the barreled action out of the stock one could use the bottom of the recoil lug but I don't believe that the bottom of all recoil lugs are flat nor would they necessarly be level with the bore if they are.

Possibly with the trigger removed the slot cut in the bottom of the reciever for it to go through would give a good level from side to side of the open slot but I'm just not sure about this either.

There has to be a guaranteed method or tool / gadget that can accomplish leveling a scope dead nuts with any type of rifle out there.

I am truely ignorant of how this is accomplished with any rifle that one may run across and it's driving me nuts.

Hopefully one of the gunsmiths on this forum will chime in soon and give up the method, tool set, or gadget that will level a scope dead nuts on any and all rifles. My sanity is at stake here.

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Old 02-20-2011, 05:26 PM   #22
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By the way, scope manufactures in their quality control and inspections allow 1 percent plus or minus for reticle straightness.
Even when you think you have it straight, the reticle may be off.
This will make a big difference in 600 to 1 mile shots.

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Old 02-20-2011, 05:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm14 View Post
Damn this thread has my interest peaked and has caused me to think and ponder how to be able to perfectly level a scope on any platform.

Now I've used the Level Level Level gadget on the rifles I've leveled the crosshairs on and have gotten away with it as I havn't run across a rifle it didn't work on. However, it appears that there is many this gadget wont work on that I havn't run across yet.

My gun vise has a level on it and adjustable legs that allow you to level the vise. So when you set the rifle in it and clamp the forestock and butt stock into it one might think the rifle is level but it's usually not due to imperfections in the stock or the way the action is set into the stock. As little as that tollerance may be one could not truely dead on level a scope with this gun vise alone. So that idea doesn't work either.

Leveling the scope off the scope base is not a guarantee either.

Not many rifles have a level spot on the reciever to level a scope off of.

Taking the rifle out of the stock to try to find a level spot on the bottom of the reciever may be sketchey as well.

Possibly with the barreled action out of the stock one could use the bottom of the recoil lug but I don't believe that the bottom of all recoil lugs are flat nor would they necessarly be level with the bore if they are.

Possibly with the trigger removed the slot cut in the bottom of the reciever for it to go through would give a good level from side to side of the open slot but I'm just not sure about this either.

There has to be a guaranteed method or tool / gadget that can accomplish leveling a scope dead nuts with any type of rifle out there.

I am truely ignorant of how this is accomplished with any rifle that one may run across and it's driving me nuts.

Hopefully one of the gunsmiths on this forum will chime in soon and give up the method, tool set, or gadget that will level a scope dead nuts on any and all rifles. My sanity is at stake here.
leveling the scope base is close enough for 0-1000yd shots. its close enough to the bore in bolt guns for it to work just fine. if you want to check you base level a level then place your base on the it then another level on the base.

howver setting the rifle in a vice leveling it off the base then locking it down re-checking level, leveling scope locking it down and re-checking level is the best way to do it without specialized jigs and will keep you on target out to 1000yards. beyound that your going to want to have it done with a jig as levels are not good enough for that precision.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpttango30 View Post
.....

Now my question is how do I do that on a bolt gun?.....
I don't "level" a scope on a bolt rifle - I set the vertical crosshair to dissect the bore.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:28 PM   #25
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I found this on another forum. Looks like a pretty precise method to me.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My method for mounting a scope and aligning the reticle is as follows. First I assume that the bottom of the action is perpendicular to the bore. That being said I remove the barreled action from the stock and place it on a level surface with the action supported on a pair of precision ground 1-2-3 blocks and I use a machinist jack set to support the muzzle end of the assembly. With the scope loose in the rings and as close as possible to the location I want it to be for proper eye relief I can rotate the scope within the rings and use a machinist set up square indexed of the same level surface as a vertical reference line. Line the vertical crosshair up with the vertical edge of the square and you are plumb. I've tried putting spirit bubbles on the tops of the reticle caps and on the reticle itself and it's never worked out, at least not to the level of precision that I'm after. I prefer to use machined surfaces to reference off of when trying to maintain parallelism and perpendicularity. All these tools can be purchased from MSC or Enco for less than what you 'd spend on most of the scope leveling gadgets that are on the market.

My ideology here is that the goal is to align the reticle vertically with the bore. I find a machined surface somewhere on the bottom of the action (whether that is the recoil lug or the actual bottom of the action) and use a precision ground block to support the action. This means that my action is now in a parallel attitude with my reference surface. Then I'm using a precision ground tool (square) to establish a vertical line from the same reference surface that I then align the vertical crosshair with. Everything is referenced off of the same surface and a machined surface of the action. It works for me, and as a machinist it makes sense to me to use the same techniques an inspector would use. If I had a 100yard long granite surface plate I would use that, but to my knowlege no one has one of those. It's not as complicated as it sounds and the tools are inexpensive and accurate.

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Old 02-20-2011, 08:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
The reference to feeler gauges is correct and a common method for leveling crosshairs not front to back. I have only used it when the scope is mounted on a rail (a one piece may also work ... depends on the mount)
Feeler gauges anywhere are not going to correct for a canted scope. I have dealt with scopes that required shimming as the only method to change elevation on the scope as there were NO adjustments what so ever on the scope. The Windage was done with the base.
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:57 PM   #27
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You put the shims under the turrets in the center of the scope, they then lie against the flat on the scope and the flat on the mount.
Use only enough shims to touch the scope, not support it, the flats will make it square with the mount.

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Old 02-20-2011, 11:09 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpttango30 View Post
Feeler gauges anywhere are not going to correct for a canted scope.....
Incorrect
The top of my picatinney rail is flat and level, the bottom of MY scope under the turrets is flat and level. So by placing an accurate shim (the feeler gauges) between them, as mentioned, the scope is now level to the rail which is level to the top of the action and bore.

I grabbed one set to demonstrate:




Trust me it's level
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Old 02-20-2011, 11:11 PM   #29
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Now that makes sense.. Thanks for the clarification t2t.........

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Old 02-21-2011, 12:36 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCH2FLY View Post
Incorrect
The top of my picatinney rail is flat and level, the bottom of MY scope under the turrets is flat and level. So by placing an accurate shim (the feeler gauges) between them, as mentioned, the scope is now level to the rail which is level to the top of the action and bore.

I grabbed one set to demonstrate:




Trust me it's level
Nice Premier Retciles scope you have there. I have the 5-25X56 on a 300 Win Mag I shoot 1000 yard target with and another one will go on a 260 I'm in the process of having built now.
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