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Old 12-16-2011, 08:39 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
i'm done with this thread. catch ya'll later.
You still here? Did you forget something? Do the phrases "i'm [sic] done with this thread" and "i'm [sic] out of here" have different meanings in your neck of the woods? We've read your opinion, your "evidence", your insults and your accusations, over and over. It's time to let it go and show us you're a man of your word by giving this dead horse some peace.

Now, this vast quantity of "experts" you've polled. They've tried target shooting at 300-600 yards with their 30-30? No they haven't. Plus, you failed to mention to this panel of "experts" that the rifle in question was shooting ammunition loaded specifically for shooting 300-600 yards, you failed to tell them this ammo was loaded with spire point bullets, you failed to tell them "effective range" was in reference to an 8"x8" square steel plate and/or half-gallon water jug and you failed to show them the videos posted so that they could make a more informed hypothesis. Some of them might have had a different answer had they been given all the details.

The fact you and your panel have ZERO hours/minutes attempting 300 yard shots with a 30-30 makes their opinions hypothetical at best and yours nothing more than rude, repetitive anecdotal whining.
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:50 AM   #72
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just ignore the idjit lile the rest of us. Ya i know its very hard but it is doable.
You and irony know no bounds.
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Old 12-16-2011, 09:01 AM   #73
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kid you can post all that ballistic information all day long and it still doesn't prove one iota of the facts as we people in the real world already know. you are trying to shoot a cartridge designed over a hundred years ago in a rifle design over a hundred years old. it was never designed for long range target shooting. maybe if you had a savage m340 bolt action, your boast might have some merit. even over 35 years ago, i had a math teacher prove on paper, 2 + 2 = 5. now here in the real world all of us realistic people know for a fact that 2 + 2 = 4, so you can pull all the fancy ballistic numbers out you want to, but you haven't IMO proved anything other than throwing out numbers and information to try and support your lame argument. i posed the question out of curiousity, never did claim them to be any type of experts. your scope wasn't the problem, you're trying to achieve something that in reality isn't probable. so when you pull your head out of the clouds and put you feet back on firm ground and can actually make realistic claims then you might have some credibility. too many people on this thread already think you're a wackjob for making the claims you have. so go tell your tall tales to someone who will believe you. i'm old school and live in the real world and haven't the time for kids and nonsense.
Since there is a mass editing going on, (evidently he does know when to be embarrassed,) I just wanted to make sure this is saved.
Good times!
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:00 PM   #74
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Since there is a mass editing going on, (evidently he does know when to be embarrassed,) I just wanted to make sure this is saved.
Good times!
I guess if I were responsible for a statement like this:

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so you can pull all the fancy ballistic numbers out you want to, but you haven't IMO proved anything other than throwing out numbers and information to try and support your lame argument.
...after all the ballistics data, speculation and theories he posted earlier, I would be deleting it too. It stinks of hypocrisy and a lack of comprehension of pertinent details.

At least they didn't resort to childish name calling.
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:19 PM   #75
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kid i apoligize if i offended you as this was not my purpose. i just know by my past experiances with a lever action 30-30 that those types of shots are just not the normal for that caliber. if you have worked up some loads that are capable of that distance then congrats to you. i know that i could never achieve that with a 30-30 personally, but i have never tried to either because to me a 30-30 was never designed for that type of shooting. and i like the 30-30 and lever action rifles and have had many over the years. it could be that your definition of accuracy and mine are different. i saw your video's of your shooting, but i will stand behind my belief that a 30-30 isn't and wasn't designed for that type of shooting. like i said if you can get yours to shoot that far, then you are much better with a lever actioned 30-30 than me and my hat's off to you for it. i understand what you're saying about bullet design and i do agree with what you said about BC of the bullet. but IMO, based on ballistics the 30-30 falls short because of case design, velocity and energy. you mentioned using slower powders, does this aid in being able to get the shots you are making? just curious. based on what you have done so far, i might have to get another 30-30 and do some experimenting with longer range shooting with it. like i said, it was not my intention to offend you, and for that i apoligize for, but in my past 40+ plus years of shooting, i would never have believed the 30-30 capable of such a distance and to me it seemed outlandish and wishful dreaming, but if you have had luck in doing so, then congratulations on doing what most would never even attempt.

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Old 12-17-2011, 11:30 PM   #76
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I guess if I were responsible for a statement like this:



...after all the ballistics data, speculation and theories he posted earlier, I would be deleting it too. It stinks of hypocrisy and a lack of comprehension of pertinent details.

At least they didn't resort to childish name calling.
i edited because i wanted to concede the point. and i stand by my belief in what a 30-30 is capable of. if he has achieved what he has claimed, then my hats off to him for being able to do what i and many others haven't. check any ballistics tables on the 30-30 and see what happens when you get past 300yards, it starts dropping fast and muzzle energy is dropping rapidly also. i also know anyone can get on a forum and state just about anything they want without any proof to back them up. if he has worked up some loads that allow him to make longer range shots than the norm, then he has done something pretty good for the 30-30. but his shots are not typical by any means or what the normal person would ever try with a 30-30.
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:11 AM   #77
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...after all the ballistics data, speculation and theories he posted earlier, I would be deleting it too. It stinks of hypocrisy and a lack of comprehension of pertinent details.
I feel a responsibility to correct misrepresentations, misunderstandings, and disinformation within my posts; especially when my integrity is being questioned. Some people don't like my approach, so they refuse to take the information provided into consideration. Which is their loss; but I know others can see the value of such information, and will benefit from it.
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:32 AM   #78
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i understand what you're saying about bullet design and i do agree with what you said about BC of the bullet. but IMO, based on ballistics the 30-30 falls short because of case design, velocity and energy. you mentioned using slower powders, does this aid in being able to get the shots you are making? just curious.
I'm using mild loads, my velocities are usually lower than max velocities listed in any of my reloading manuals. My extended range shooting with the 30-30 starts with high BC bullets and load development geared toward accuracy; just the same as any of my other rifles... or pistols for that matter.

I have a chronograph for two reasons; to observe the extreme spread [ES,] and to know the velocity so I can make an accurate drop chart. Powder choice is critical in achieving a low ES.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:49 PM   #79
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I'm using mild loads, my velocities are usually lower than max velocities listed in any of my reloading manuals. My extended range shooting with the 30-30 starts with high BC bullets and load development geared toward accuracy; just the same as any of my other rifles... or pistols for that matter.

I have a chronograph for two reasons; to observe the extreme spread [ES,] and to know the velocity so I can make an accurate drop chart. Powder choice is critical in achieving a low ES.
okay i understand the chronograph for the checking velocity for ES and knowing what to account for as far a consistent velocity for bullet drop. but why a milder load? wouldn't a hotter or faster load, one with lots of velocity allow more stabilized bullet flight? i know that the hotter or faster load is not always the most accurate, but what type of muzzle velocity is able to get them that far?
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Old 12-18-2011, 03:03 PM   #80
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i edited because i wanted to concede the point. and i stand by my belief in what a 30-30 is capable of. if he has achieved what he has claimed, then my hats off to him for being able to do what i and many others haven't. check any ballistics tables on the 30-30 and see what happens when you get past 300yards, it starts dropping fast and muzzle energy is dropping rapidly also. i also know anyone can get on a forum and state just about anything they want without any proof to back them up. if he has worked up some loads that allow him to make longer range shots than the norm, then he has done something pretty good for the 30-30. but his shots are not typical by any means or what the normal person would ever try with a 30-30.
A large part of the problem here was that some important factors were missed or disregarded. Then some just ran with the information that was left (30-30 - Win94 - 300-600-yards) and never looked back. Then when we tried to explain this issue and point out the missing information it seem to fall repeatedly on deaf ears. I give you credit for taking another look to understand what The Kid was using and why, because most people don't.

Your assessment of the factory loaded 30-30 ammunition and the Winchester 94 are correct, trying to shoot/hunt past 250-yds would be pushing both well beyond their intended range. With The Kid working up his own reloads and shooting the rifle as a single shot it took the factory 30-30 loads and flat nosed bullets out of the equation. This also means the ammunition being used is generally more accurate than those factory loads and even more so with him loading for that specific purpose. It just seemed a lot of people were ignoring those factors.
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