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Old 12-15-2011, 07:50 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willfully armed
This went from junk scopes, to doubting each others shooting ability and ended up as a short pecker pissing contest.

Oh, and I'm shooting .32" 8 shot groups at 263 meters with 1oz sabots in an 18" coach gun.....
A lil over 287 yards hummm, very ahhh whats the word, sorry brain fart, very good shootin there, thats a very accurate coach gun a keeper for sure
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Old 12-15-2011, 08:00 PM   #62
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It was accurized by GA Precision. Its Dick Cheneys old trap gum.

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Old 12-15-2011, 08:04 PM   #63
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It was accurized by GA Precision. Its Dick Cheneys old trap gum.
Hoooooold on now thats a proper shotty there, much respect to the ga precision co, they do awesome work, poor ol dick should have kept that one
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Old 12-15-2011, 10:40 PM   #64
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i posed the question to several co-workers and friends who hunt with a 30-30 rifle from time to time, and asked them what would e the longest shot they would feel would be in the effective range for that round. answers were from 175-250 yards. one even said that if he were using the Hornady Leverrevollution bullets, he would push it to about 250-275 yards. i also posed the theoretical range of 300-600 yards with a 30-30. they said they just didn't think it likely with lever actioned 30-30 to be able to get a good group at that range.

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Old 12-16-2011, 05:54 AM   #65
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So you are "going to waste [your] time" and "breath, argu[ing.]"

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Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
i posed the question to several co-workers and friends who hunt with a 30-30 rifle from time to time,
Well I can see why you came back, you have acquired expert testimony!


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Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
and asked them what would e the longest shot they would feel would be in the effective range for that round.
You refer to me as, " someone who hasn't got a clue about guns or ballistics." yet you figure the effective range of a cartridge by asking "several co-workers and friends."
The funniest part is, you call me "silly."

Give me your hand, you're in need of being schooled again...



Calculating Effective Range

Open the ballistics calculator of your choice, here is web based one you can use for free.
Hornady's Ballistics Calculator
Enter your pertinent information.
Press the "Calculate" button... (have your "co-workers and friends" check your work.)

Then, you need to know what targets you can be "effective" on at what "range." There are at least three schools of thought on this, some say shot placement trumps all, others say a specific energy needs to be present, while others say a specific speed hast to be present in order to facilitate the desired expansion.
Lets use the energy method, since shot placement is still a factor, and since different game dictates using different bullet types.

Since you don't know what game we are talking about, I'll go with deer.
The Killing Power Of Big Game Bullets: By Chuck Hawks
Quote:
It is generally recommended that a small bore (.24-.32 caliber) rifle bullet suitable for medium size (CXP2 class) game be carrying about 800 ft. lbs. of kinetic energy when it hits.
Then we need to know what bullet at what speed. Lets go with the FTX traveling at 2100fps at the muzzle.... My calculations show the 30-30 cartridge retains the desired energy for deer at about 275 yards.
Your experts are correct... unless they were talking cape buffalo.

Now lets go with the targets outlined in this post. [Yes, this is when you get frustrated and ignore what is written.]
My targets are simply items I find enjoyable to shoot at. There is no specific energy I need to retain, I just need to be able to hit the target.

Believe it or not, there still is an "effective range;" and it is determined by velocity; more specifically, when the bullet's speed reduces into the transonic region.
External Ballistics:The Transonic Problem (Have the experts explain it to you.)
So using the same load above, the bullet will go transonic at about 500 yards, whereas it will suffer from, "significant accuracy decay."
...

Now, say we use bullets with a superior ballistic coefficient, (loaded singly,) like the SST for example.
That is 350 yards, at a target the size of a deer kill zone, with enough energy to kill deer... One shot.
It goes transonic at about 650 yards.
If you calculate the "effective[ness]" of the bullet using those numbers with Hornady's HITS calculator, you'll find that bullet can kill "Small Game."
In other words, the "effective range" of the "30-30... round" on "small game" can be 650 yards... using the proper tools.

...

Next time you report what the experts tell you to regarding "effective range," you'll know to include what game is being harvested... since the experts were probably not talking about cape buffalo.
I would think a person that, "do[es] a lot of target shooting, [does] a lot of reloading and [has] hunted many times in the past, and [knows] a few things about guns and shooters" would understand this basic concept. Obviously not.
...
At least the other dudes knew not to embarrass themselves further by attempting debate... of course, flinging poo isn't all that uplifting, but to each their own.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:25 AM   #66
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The fact that anyone is still arguing about 600 yds with a 30-30 is a testament to their lackluster ability to find meaningful activities outside this thread.

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Old 12-16-2011, 06:27 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willfully armed
The fact that anyone is still arguing about 600 yds with a 30-30 is a testament to their lackluster ability to find meaningful activities outside this thread.
Ya its the kid keepin it alive now. Axxe has stepped back/out of this one as have me and mulie

God didnt make all men equal colonel sam colt did
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:39 AM   #68
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boy is this getting stupid or what? just when you think they might give in, they got and go rile things up! i give up! time to go and let the kid have his way. kid you can believe whatever, i give up. your right and everyone else is wrong. you win.

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Old 12-16-2011, 06:44 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axxe55
kid you can post all that ballistic information all day long and it still doesn't prove one iota of the facts as we people in the real world already know. you are trying to shoot a cartridge designed over a hundred years ago in a rifle design over a hundred years old. it was never designed for long range target shooting. maybe if you had a savage m340 bolt action, your boast might have some merit. even over 35 years ago, i had a math teacher prove on paper, 2 + 2 = 5. now here in the real world all of us realistic people know for a fact that 2 + 2 = 4, so you can pull all the fancy ballistic numbers out you want to, but you haven't IMO proved anything other than throwing out numbers and information to try and support your lame argument. i posed the question out of curiousity, never did claim them to be any type of experts. your scope wasn't the problem, you're trying to achieve something that in reality isn't probable. so when you pull your head out of the clouds and put you feet back on firm ground and can actually make realistic claims then you might have some credibility. too many people on this thread already think you're a wackjob for making the claims you have. so go tell your tall tales to someone who will believe you. i'm old school and live in the real world and haven't the time for kids and nonsense.
Axxe im from the SHOW ME state so i understand where your comin from but for all of our sakes just ignore the idjit lile the rest of us. Ya i know its very hard but it is doable.

God didnt make all men equal colonel sam colt did
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:03 AM   #70
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Axxe im from the SHOW ME state so i understand where your comin from but for all of our sakes just ignore the idjit lile the rest of us. Ya i know its very hard but it is doable.

God didnt make all men equal colonel sam colt did
i know, sometimes they just get under your skin like a chigger though! but i'm out of here. just too many self proclaimed experts who seem to know it all. bye to everyone.
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