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Old 05-01-2012, 03:41 AM   #41
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when will this senseless debate of 9mm vs. 40 vs. 45 end? it's been beat to death!

IMO,some people try to compensate with a larger caliber to overcome their lack of skill with a firearm. wrong approach. because several accurate hits with a 380, will trump several misses from a 44 Mag.! that's a fact. accurate shot placement with proper type ammo will get the job done, regardless of the caliber used. but i will always suggest, to use the largest caliber you can shoot accurately.

well i'm going back to the baseball game now!

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Old 05-01-2012, 02:29 PM   #42
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In my line of business I might need the horsepower that will go through a vehicle door, or wall, or some other type of reinforced cover. The .45 +P+ FMJ is the choice of round coming down range. Hello!!!
45+P+ in an FMJ platform? Hmmm...that must be some super-secret gee-whizz stuff there. After 23 years as a police officer, academy firearms trainer, and SWAT member before the knees and hip went...I never had that come across the wire for evaluation. The +P+ round in military usage IF such an animal exists...would be no-se-bueno from a legal standpoint via Hague Convention rules.

Unless you're part of some super-secret higher than high speed lower than low drag operations team that operates with no oversight, and with presidential pardons in your pocket...then I am frightfully uneducated about the need or even usefullness of such an animal as a +P+ BALL round. It would't be practical from a self defense point of view, and if penetration through cover was a key consideration...well...one would think super troopers would have a rifle or a carbine.

Penetration? A 9mm in standard pressure in an FMJ will penetrate MORE than a 45 ACP even at +P velocities. Even though the round is half the weight, it has longer relative sectional density, and is more efficient (aerodynamically), and pushed to much higher velocities. Physics is a bitch. That is not to say that 9mm ball is particularly effective at being anything more than a remote controlled drill bit...then again, non-expanding ammo in just about any caliber is about as useless as hen**** on a pump handle in self defense applications, unless you're talking about 44Spl, 45 Colt, or even 45ACP in MODERATE velocity loadings to DECREASE over penetration and INCREASE the amout of trauma delivered INTO the target.

The standard 230 FMJ round is chugging along at right aroung 850. In +P a 230 round in JHP will only be slightly faster at 950. The fastest 45ACP I have ever used/evaluated is the Cor Bon 165 +P JHP with scoots just under 1150 over a chrony. However...this round is the recoil equivalent of a 41 Magnum, and beats up the gun AND the shooter. Pretty good carbine round...but MEH as an actual carry round.

So...pushing a round that is 65 grains HEAVIER to +P+ velocities? Well...that's gonna be a gun breaker, create ridiculous muzzle blast, and a lack of control. It just doesn't make sense.

Just sayin'
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:56 PM   #43
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If you don't like 9mm then don't buy one, why people insisting on shoving there beliefs and preferences down everyones throat is beyond me.

If you need a howitzer to feel secure then so be it.

A bullet is a bullet regardless of size, a .45 FMJ doesn't expand, so if you feel safe with that you should feel safe with a 9mm JHP, which expands to about a 65 caliber.

This subject ticks me off more than any other. If I want to carry a spitball for self defense its no-one else's concern.

A 45 will do the job, so will a 9mm.

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Old 05-01-2012, 03:19 PM   #44
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U know. I keep seeing people post how they want this topic to end or they r tired of seeing this topic. For those who r tired of it stop looking at the post and commenting. Let people talk about it all they want. It's not hurting anything.

Zamzow

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Old 05-01-2012, 04:13 PM   #45
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U know. I keep seeing people post how they want this topic to end or they r tired of seeing this topic. For those who r tired of it stop looking at the post and commenting. Let people talk about it all they want. It's not hurting anything.

Zamzow
you have said and i am assuming that it's your opinion the 9mm is useless. fact is, a 9mm with proper ammo will get the job done. that's a fact and can be argued till hell freezes over. not everyone can or will carry a 40 or a 45 or even a 9mm, so i will stress that shot placement and multiple hits with the proper ammo will trump, those who tend to shoot larger calibers, hoping to overcome their lack of skill with a firearm. so compensating with a larger caliber, IMO doesn't really compensate for lack of practical practice with a firearm.

it's really a dead issue, in the fact, there are those who believe a 9mm just isn't big enough a caliber for SD carry. well i disagree and think they are wrong. do i carry a 9mm? sometimes. i also carry a 40 sometimes and sometimes a 45. even sometimes a 380. and i never feel like i am undergunned. because i believe in accurate shot placement, not trying to rely on caliber selection. so beat a dead horse if you choose, but it really doesn't get you anywhere. you can bring ballistics or statistics into it, and there are just some that are stuck in their modes of thinking.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:55 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Zamzow View Post
U know. I keep seeing people post how they want this topic to end or they r tired of seeing this topic. For those who r tired of it stop looking at the post and commenting. Let people talk about it all they want. It's not hurting anything.

Zamzow
Now that is some good posting.
I like to think forums are about education and tapping into others experience. Some people crossed this bridge before and so they think it is a moot point, maybe they are right for themselves but not the case for new to the subject people. The argument can be made to search for you answer, and that’s a good argument in most cases but sometimes it is easier to ask a specific question and actually interact with people. If everyone just searched for statements than it would be mighty boring. Bottom line is ask your question, that’s what these places are for. You will always have the naysayers squawking about how they read this question 3 years ago when they were learning…….so what.
Some people like to complain no matter what……just for instance the Red Jacket thread……I would be willing to bet that 75% of the sheeple in that thread wouldn’t know how to turn on machine or even know how to read calipers or a micrometer but yet they will complain for 20 pages about what idiots they are there……don’t take it personal because I think your post is 100 times more valid than that piece of crap.
The worst is when people complain about a thread than go ahead and throw in there two cents on the subject……If you don’t think a subject is valid than why even post in it let alone participate in answering the question, it just hypocritical to me…..everyone is new at one time or another
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:02 PM   #47
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now that is some good posting.
I like to think forums are about education and tapping into others experience. Some people crossed this bridge before and so they think it is a moot point, maybe they are right for themselves but not the case for new to the subject people. The argument can be made to search for you answer, and that’s a good argument in most cases but sometimes it is easier to ask a specific question and actually interact with people. If everyone just searched for statements than it would be mighty boring. Bottom line is ask your question, that’s what these places are for. You will always have the naysayers squawking about how they read this question 3 years ago when they were learning…….so what.
Some people like to complain no matter what……just for instance the red jacket thread……i would be willing to bet that 75% of the sheeple in that thread wouldn’t know how to turn on machine or even know how to read calipers or a micrometer but yet they will complain for 20 pages about what idiots they are there……don’t take it personal because i think your post is 100 times more valid than that piece of crap.
The worst is when people complain about a thread than go ahead and throw in there two cents on the subject……if you don’t think a subject is valid than why even post in it let alone participate in answering the question, it just hypocritical to me…..everyone is new at one time or another
+100^^^^^^
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