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Old 12-29-2007, 12:57 PM   #11
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Default Perception is Reality!!!!!!!!!!

I am fully aware of the performance characteristics of various bullet designs, but there is more to the subject than just guns and bullets. A shooting is not the end of a problem, if only serves as a marker in the progression of the problem.
The events of the shooting will be examined with a level of scrutiny that would make an I.R.S. audit seem appealing. An ADA (Assistant District Attorney) and a detective will review each single thread that lead up to the shooting. What you did, said, and how you acted, will matter. The gun you used can sway an opinion. The gun, in legal eyes, speaks to intent. At the end of the day you may be looking at a criminal charge and fighting to stay free from jail.
The family of the decedent will go to a lawyer also, just as you would if it was your loved one killed. That's a point to always remember, somebody loves that alleged perpetrator. Anyway now YOU will be placed under the microscope. When it comes to a Wrongful Death Suit I don't need a DA or criminal conviction, the standard of guilt is lower. Now you may be faced with another fight, one for everything you have.
On a defensive shooting that is above reproach I, and no attorney that I personally know, would proceed with a suit. If an event conforms to the letter and intent of the law, well that's the end of it.
However, if you were overly aggressive, didn't retreat if able, excessive in your use of force, then your problems have just begun.
Perception is reality to most people (The people on a jury - remember them?).
People that use hollow points want to kill someone, perception.
People that use high capacity guns want to kill someone, perception.
People that use "black guns" want to kill someone, perception.
People on trial (YOU) did something wrong, perception.

If you are in a shooting and I have no doubt that what you did was legally and morally wrong, I will use all these things against you. I will hold that gun up to a jury and tell them you are a crime looking for a victim. That is reality. It will be over for me when, after the judgement is read, I look over at you and see you go limp and start to sob as you feel your world slip away from you. That again is reality.
Guns are a right, but the responsibility is far greater. I hold accountability and responsibility above all traits, and that is the microscope I would put YOU the shooter under. If you crossed the line and committed an illegal shooting, well that "black gun" with hollow points (please have a light or laser on that "tactical rail", maybe even night sights) will hang you.
Have a nice day!

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Old 12-29-2007, 01:31 PM   #12
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I'm sure there's all kinds of better ammo for home defense, but my first mag is JHP, in .45.


The Castle Doctrine law must really annoy the lawyers. Where I'm at, as long as I used a legal weapon/ammo in defense of my home, there wouldn't be any opportunity to sue. No charges would be filed, and if they aren't, civil suits can't be filed. It happens around here occasionally. In most cases, the home invader leaves in a bag. All the resident has to be worried about is cleaning the carpet.

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Old 12-29-2007, 02:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanker60A3 View Post
I am fully aware of the performance characteristics of various bullet designs, but there is more to the subject than just guns and bullets. A shooting is not the end of a problem, if only serves as a marker in the progression of the problem.
The events of the shooting will be examined with a level of scrutiny that would make an I.R.S. audit seem appealing. An ADA (Assistant District Attorney) and a detective will review each single thread that lead up to the shooting. What you did, said, and how you acted, will matter. The gun you used can sway an opinion. The gun, in legal eyes, speaks to intent. At the end of the day you may be looking at a criminal charge and fighting to stay free from jail.
The family of the decedent will go to a lawyer also, just as you would if it was your loved one killed. That's a point to always remember, somebody loves that alleged perpetrator. Anyway now YOU will be placed under the microscope. When it comes to a Wrongful Death Suit I don't need a DA or criminal conviction, the standard of guilt is lower. Now you may be faced with another fight, one for everything you have.
On a defensive shooting that is above reproach I, and no attorney that I personally know, would proceed with a suit. If an event conforms to the letter and intent of the law, well that's the end of it.
However, if you were overly aggressive, didn't retreat if able, excessive in your use of force, then your problems have just begun.
Perception is reality to most people (The people on a jury - remember them?).
People that use hollow points want to kill someone, perception.
People that use high capacity guns want to kill someone, perception.
People that use "black guns" want to kill someone, perception.
People on trial (YOU) did something wrong, perception.

If you are in a shooting and I have no doubt that what you did was legally and morally wrong, I will use all these things against you. I will hold that gun up to a jury and tell them you are a crime looking for a victim. That is reality. It will be over for me when, after the judgement is read, I look over at you and see you go limp and start to sob as you feel your world slip away from you. That again is reality.
Guns are a right, but the responsibility is far greater. I hold accountability and responsibility above all traits, and that is the microscope I would put YOU the shooter under. If you crossed the line and committed an illegal shooting, well that "black gun" with hollow points (please have a light or laser on that "tactical rail", maybe even night sights) will hang you.
Have a nice day!

I appreciate those points. I recently took the NRA Basic Pistol course and they touched upon this topic. With respect to ammo, they unofficially suggested Hydra-shok, not only because of its performance characteristics, but because it is used by the police, hence it should not been seen as a "bad ammo".

I do have a "black gun", but that is just because I wanted something reliable that has a low chance of misfires, the XD is known to be so; the fact that it is black is inconsequential. What color gun do the police use?

In the unlikely event that I am ever in a shooting, it will be because I was defending myself or my family, and I know that the facts will be on my side; so hopefully these side arguments the ambulance-chasers want to use, like the color of the gun and type of ammo, will not have much weight.

You do have me rethinking my choice for a home protection shotgun though.
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Old 12-29-2007, 04:18 PM   #14
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Tanker

In response to your statement about the family going for a lawyer, you are absolutely wrong. If my relative had broken into someone's house and got shot over it, I would chalk it up to my relative being a scumbag and figure the world is a better place for it.

Your arguments sound like you either know you are doing wrong but want to justify it or you have convinced yourself you are doing the right thing but know otherwise. Just admit it, it's for the money.

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Old 12-29-2007, 05:38 PM   #15
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Back on topic, I'd recommend Glasers for home protection if you're worried about the chance of a stray. If you can guarantee 100% that your shot will find it's target, then the Hydra-shoks are a very devastating round. I've seen high speed camera footage of the 230 gr. .45 ACPs in ballistics gel and it scared me, but at the same time forced me to buy a box. There is a massive wound channel created by them, which, in turn creates massive trauma and brings you one step closer to dropping an attacker with a single shot.

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Old 12-30-2007, 03:36 AM   #16
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Duck,
I agree with you on the loved one part. I thought about responding, but really it would like talking to a wall. And what is with all these courtroom fantisies? Either the boy's grip on reality is starting to slip or he has to stop watching them Law & Order marathon's. So I have decided not to give this one any further thought. Like Ron White said " You can't fix stupid. "

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Old 12-30-2007, 10:16 AM   #17
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Back on topic as well. I use Hornady TAP as my defense round. Also, I have bought ammo online quite often from wideners.com and their prices and service are very good. There are states where you can't buy ammo online but thankfully GA isn't one of them...

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Old 01-27-2008, 10:25 PM   #18
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Find out what ever the local PD is carrying in their issue pistols. Spokane WA is Speer Gold Dot. Carry the same thing for home defense. I have heard of lost court cases by the home-owner using handloads to defend themselves, even in their own home. Leave the handl;oads for hunting, plinking and competition. Again carry what the local police carry, and the arguement is....if it is good enough for the Police, then it is good enough to protect my family. Ohm and regardless of the type of home you live in, apartment, townhouse, single-wide etc, nothing stops bullets better then the bad-guys.

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Old 02-14-2008, 01:45 PM   #19
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"Black gun" = AR/AK...

FWIW - I've got hydrashocks in mine.

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Old 02-15-2008, 03:07 AM   #20
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Ask ten different people what the best ammo for home protection is, whether they be expert or average shooters, and you'll get several different answers.

IMHO, there's not a penny's worth of difference between the best offerings of the major ammo manufacturers.

You won't go wrong with Hydra-Shoks, period. Not because I think it's some kind of "magic" round that outperforms everything else on the market by leaps and bounds---but because it has proven itself to be extremely reliable in both real world law enforcement confrontations and ballistics tests over the course of many years.

If Gold Dots float your boat, buy them.

Trust me, if you ever have to shoot a perp in the chest with either brand, he'll never know the difference.

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