Wacking Power - 45 ACP - Page 2
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of FirearmsTalk.com!    
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Handguns > Semi-Auto Handguns > 1911 Forum >

Wacking Power - 45 ACP


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-06-2011, 08:33 PM   #11
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
canebrake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 150 miles NE of Sloppy Joe's Bar
Posts: 21,941
Liked 1443 Times on 812 Posts
Likes Given: 1290

Default More info for the Hatcher Formula

The Hatcher Formula is an attempt to mathematically evaluate the approximate effectiveness of pistol ammunition at incapacitating a person. Developed by Gen. Julian Hatcher in the 1930's, it uses the bullet momentum, frontal area, velocity, and a 'form factor.'

The formula is:
RSP = M * A * F
where RSP = Relative Stopping Power Index, M = Momentum of the bullet in foot pounds, A = Area of the bullet in square inches, F = Form factor derived from his observations with some additions for later bullet types. The table lists an RSP for each 'Form Factor', whether or not that form of bullet actually exists for a particular caliber or weight. The form factors presented below include:

0.70 Fully Jacketed Pointed
0.90 Fully Jacketed Round Nose
1.05 Fully Jacketed Flat Point
1.10 Fully Jacketed Flat Point (Large flat)
1.00 Lead Round Nose
1.05 Lead Flat Point
1.10 Lead Flat Point (Large Flat)
1.00 Jacketed Softpoint (unexpanded)
1.35 Jacketed Softpoint (expanded)
1.25 Lead Semi-wadcutter
1.10 Hollow Point (unexpanded)
1.35 Hollow Point (expanded)

Hatcher's Theory Of Relative Stopping Power

The standard Kinetic Energy equation (½mv²)uses kilograms and meters-per-second and yields Joules of KE.

In Ballistics Kinetic Energy is expressed in Foot Pounds (ft-lbs) rather than Joules. Furthermore, the standard equation usually uses 980.261 cm/sec (32.16 feet per second) as a standard, but in reality that number varies depending upon your position on the earth - different latitudes or altitutes have small differences in acceleration due to gravity. Since bullet weights are expressed in grains and velocity is in feet per second, in Ballistics, you see Kinetic Energy formulas expressed like KE = mv²/450240. (The mystery factor of 450240 is (7000 * 32.16 * 2) or (GrainsInPound * FeetPerSecond * 2). The table uses latitude 41º at sealevel (32.1607 ft per second).

Hatcher's Theory Of Relative Stopping Power
__________________
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...brake02jpg.jpg

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/...ps18cfbeae.jpg

Get her dirty, then clean her so she starts to respect you. When her trust is complete, she will serve you well for a lifetime!

"...if doves shot back, there wouldn't be a need for a bag limit."
- orangello
canebrake is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2011, 09:07 PM   #12
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mudslinger79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Williamsburg,Virginia
Posts: 259
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 59

Default

Yea... What he said.
__________________
Blessed are the peacemakers...
mudslinger79 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 12:59 AM   #13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Morton,WA
Posts: 128
Default Jello Junkies vs Morgue Monsters

Cane,

WOW! I have read some of what Hatcher has written and was impressed.

Was it Hatcher or Martin Fackler (sic?) who came to their conclusions by shooting human cadavers?
parinoid54 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 01:40 AM   #14
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
canebrake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: 150 miles NE of Sloppy Joe's Bar
Posts: 21,941
Liked 1443 Times on 812 Posts
Likes Given: 1290

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by parinoid54 View Post
Cane,

WOW! I have read some of what Hatcher has written and was impressed.

Was it Hatcher or Martin Fackler (sic?) who came to their conclusions by shooting human cadavers?
I'm thinking live goats, the size of the human thorax.

Wacking Power - 45 ACP - 1911 Forum
__________________
http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...brake02jpg.jpg

http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/...ps18cfbeae.jpg

Get her dirty, then clean her so she starts to respect you. When her trust is complete, she will serve you well for a lifetime!

"...if doves shot back, there wouldn't be a need for a bag limit."
- orangello
canebrake is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 02:21 AM   #15
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
colmustard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,150
Liked 256 Times on 143 Posts
Likes Given: 541

Default

Very impresive post cane. That info is very intresting, and making me want to possibly switch from my .38 s&w back to my .40 sigma or .45 1911
__________________
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
--George Washington
colmustard is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 02:29 AM   #16
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: my town,pa
Posts: 90
Default

there is not too much difference at all between the three major pistol calibers (9mm, 40, 45) and I will go with a 9mm because I can have more bullets. someone in trouble should always want more magazine compacity. what is more effective.

17 rounds of 9mm
15 round of 40 sw
12 rounds of 45 acp

after you shoot 12 rounds of 45 acp bullets and you have to defend yourself more I guarantee you will say to yourself give me that sissy 9mm. H&K still use 9mm in their main sub machineguns. after the thompson there really isnt much other popular choice for 45 acp sub machine guns.

however I am not going to say take a 32 acp pistol with a 30 round magazine. once you get to 9mm it steps it up to the next level of efficient power. when it comes to 9mm 40sw and 45 acp go based upon what you like to shoot and favor.
ballfan4141 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 02:34 AM   #17
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mudslinger79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Williamsburg,Virginia
Posts: 259
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 59

Default

The State and local police in my area have been instructed in certain situations to unload there mag! Doesn't seem to crazy to me. God forbid I EVER have to use my pistol it will be unloaded on the threat.
__________________
Blessed are the peacemakers...
mudslinger79 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 03:07 AM   #18
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
HKSlinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Out Here
Posts: 730
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mach1337 View Post
Sorry but I have to share this short story...

A really good friend of mine who shares the same love for guns as I do always has this conversaiton everytime one of us goes to buy a new gun... He always said that he would never buy a 9mm because it didnt have enough stopping power. Always said he would never go smaller then .40.

Sad part now. He got shot a week ago. He is fine now and recovering. But he was shot with a 9mm. And not a good shot at that. Got him in the stomach about a inch above his right hip and exited after it clipped his left hip. Took out about 12 inches of small intestine and split his colon in half.

Well first thing he said to me when I got to the hospital was and Im not even joking "sherman remember how I said 9mm is a P!$$& round. Well I was wrong"
He was drunk when it happened and believe me he stopped instantly. thats my argument for stoppng power...
Sorry to hear about your friend. Hope he makes a full recovery. Tough way to become a 9mm believer.
__________________
The rest of the world gets it,why can't we?
"The United States can survive a Barack Obama,who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president".
Out of the Czech Republic

Psalm 138:7
HKSlinger is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 03:30 AM   #19
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Morton,WA
Posts: 128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by canebrake View Post
I'm thinking live goats, the size of the human thorax.

Wacking Power - 45 ACP - 1911 Forum
But, wasn't this the Strausberg test using live Alpine goats? I know I drink a lot of kool aid, but I am certain (as much as an idiot can be) that one of these guys used "zombies," somewhere in the early twenteth century. As I remember, he used how much the cadaver would move after being hit.

As far as the 9mm goes, the 86 Maimi shoot out showed a lot; about not only penetration, but also of impact force, hence the 10mm/40S&W. And then the Hollywood bank robbing machinegunners, unaffected by the police' 9mm (yes, wearing body armor), where the LAPD started allowing the use of the 45 for more of a forceful "hit."

I know, perhaps I am answering my own question; but I was/am looking for more "evidence," in the real world. I don't get to read your local newpapers, and God knows the national media will not report "good" shootings, which is why I am asking you country boys to pass on what you know about fight-stopping use of the 45. Remember, I only just bought my first 1911's less than a year ago, so for now - I am going on a lot of faith and heresay.

Last edited by parinoid54; 03-07-2011 at 12:17 PM.
parinoid54 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 03:51 AM   #20
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Morton,WA
Posts: 128
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mach1337 View Post
Sorry but I have to share this short story...

A really good friend of mine who shares the same love for guns as I do always has this conversaiton everytime one of us goes to buy a new gun... He always said that he would never buy a 9mm because it didnt have enough stopping power. Always said he would never go smaller then .40.

Sad part now. He got shot a week ago. He is fine now and recovering. But he was shot with a 9mm. And not a good shot at that. Got him in the stomach about a inch above his right hip and exited after it clipped his left hip. Took out about 12 inches of small intestine and split his colon in half.

Well first thing he said to me when I got to the hospital was and Im not even joking "sherman remember how I said 9mm is a P!$$& round. Well I was wrong"
He was drunk when it happened and believe me he stopped instantly. thats my argument for stoppng power...
For whatever it may be worth to you and others (and your friend), your story was the icing on the cake for me. I am selling my 380 as my "back up" and replacing it with a 9mm. At least now that some, like Ruger LC9, are making them in small enough packages to deep carry. Please tell your friend that I ask God be with him and comfort him.

Last edited by parinoid54; 03-07-2011 at 04:22 AM.
parinoid54 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Hi power vs Beretta rob072770 Semi-Auto Handguns 14 11-27-2010 08:00 AM
It's Here! Hi Power Gun Porn CA357 Semi-Auto Handguns 39 09-06-2010 09:51 AM
Browning Hi Power 9mm gt5-33 Semi-Auto Handguns 11 09-29-2009 05:51 PM
To Much Power Woodsman The Club House 6 02-10-2009 01:27 AM
Hi-Power Fayettedave Semi-Auto Handguns 7 11-18-2008 03:57 AM



Newest Threads