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# Wacking Power - 45 ACP

03-06-2011, 08:33 PM   #11
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The Hatcher Formula is an attempt to mathematically evaluate the approximate effectiveness of pistol ammunition at incapacitating a person. Developed by Gen. Julian Hatcher in the 1930's, it uses the bullet momentum, frontal area, velocity, and a 'form factor.'

The formula is:
RSP = M * A * F
where RSP = Relative Stopping Power Index, M = Momentum of the bullet in foot pounds, A = Area of the bullet in square inches, F = Form factor derived from his observations with some additions for later bullet types. The table lists an RSP for each 'Form Factor', whether or not that form of bullet actually exists for a particular caliber or weight. The form factors presented below include:

0.70 Fully Jacketed Pointed
0.90 Fully Jacketed Round Nose
1.05 Fully Jacketed Flat Point
1.10 Fully Jacketed Flat Point (Large flat)
1.10 Lead Flat Point (Large Flat)
1.00 Jacketed Softpoint (unexpanded)
1.35 Jacketed Softpoint (expanded)
1.10 Hollow Point (unexpanded)
1.35 Hollow Point (expanded)

Hatcher's Theory Of Relative Stopping Power

The standard Kinetic Energy equation (½mv²)uses kilograms and meters-per-second and yields Joules of KE.

In Ballistics Kinetic Energy is expressed in Foot Pounds (ft-lbs) rather than Joules. Furthermore, the standard equation usually uses 980.261 cm/sec (32.16 feet per second) as a standard, but in reality that number varies depending upon your position on the earth - different latitudes or altitutes have small differences in acceleration due to gravity. Since bullet weights are expressed in grains and velocity is in feet per second, in Ballistics, you see Kinetic Energy formulas expressed like KE = mv²/450240. (The mystery factor of 450240 is (7000 * 32.16 * 2) or (GrainsInPound * FeetPerSecond * 2). The table uses latitude 41º at sealevel (32.1607 ft per second).

Hatcher's Theory Of Relative Stopping Power
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03-06-2011, 09:07 PM   #12
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Yea... What he said.
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03-07-2011, 12:59 AM   #13
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Jello Junkies vs Morgue Monsters

Cane,

WOW! I have read some of what Hatcher has written and was impressed.

Was it Hatcher or Martin Fackler (sic?) who came to their conclusions by shooting human cadavers?

03-07-2011, 01:40 AM   #14
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by parinoid54 Cane, WOW! I have read some of what Hatcher has written and was impressed. Was it Hatcher or Martin Fackler (sic?) who came to their conclusions by shooting human cadavers?
I'm thinking live goats, the size of the human thorax.

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03-07-2011, 02:21 AM   #15
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Very impresive post cane. That info is very intresting, and making me want to possibly switch from my .38 s&w back to my .40 sigma or .45 1911
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03-07-2011, 02:29 AM   #16
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there is not too much difference at all between the three major pistol calibers (9mm, 40, 45) and I will go with a 9mm because I can have more bullets. someone in trouble should always want more magazine compacity. what is more effective.

17 rounds of 9mm
15 round of 40 sw
12 rounds of 45 acp

after you shoot 12 rounds of 45 acp bullets and you have to defend yourself more I guarantee you will say to yourself give me that sissy 9mm. H&K still use 9mm in their main sub machineguns. after the thompson there really isnt much other popular choice for 45 acp sub machine guns.

however I am not going to say take a 32 acp pistol with a 30 round magazine. once you get to 9mm it steps it up to the next level of efficient power. when it comes to 9mm 40sw and 45 acp go based upon what you like to shoot and favor.

03-07-2011, 02:34 AM   #17
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The State and local police in my area have been instructed in certain situations to unload there mag! Doesn't seem to crazy to me. God forbid I EVER have to use my pistol it will be unloaded on the threat.
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03-07-2011, 03:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by mach1337 Sorry but I have to share this short story... A really good friend of mine who shares the same love for guns as I do always has this conversaiton everytime one of us goes to buy a new gun... He always said that he would never buy a 9mm because it didnt have enough stopping power. Always said he would never go smaller then .40. Sad part now. He got shot a week ago. He is fine now and recovering. But he was shot with a 9mm. And not a good shot at that. Got him in the stomach about a inch above his right hip and exited after it clipped his left hip. Took out about 12 inches of small intestine and split his colon in half. Well first thing he said to me when I got to the hospital was and Im not even joking "sherman remember how I said 9mm is a P!\$\$& round. Well I was wrong" He was drunk when it happened and believe me he stopped instantly. thats my argument for stoppng power...
Sorry to hear about your friend. Hope he makes a full recovery. Tough way to become a 9mm believer.
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03-07-2011, 03:30 AM   #19
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by canebrake I'm thinking live goats, the size of the human thorax.
But, wasn't this the Strausberg test using live Alpine goats? I know I drink a lot of kool aid, but I am certain (as much as an idiot can be) that one of these guys used "zombies," somewhere in the early twenteth century. As I remember, he used how much the cadaver would move after being hit.

As far as the 9mm goes, the 86 Maimi shoot out showed a lot; about not only penetration, but also of impact force, hence the 10mm/40S&W. And then the Hollywood bank robbing machinegunners, unaffected by the police' 9mm (yes, wearing body armor), where the LAPD started allowing the use of the 45 for more of a forceful "hit."

I know, perhaps I am answering my own question; but I was/am looking for more "evidence," in the real world. I don't get to read your local newpapers, and God knows the national media will not report "good" shootings, which is why I am asking you country boys to pass on what you know about fight-stopping use of the 45. Remember, I only just bought my first 1911's less than a year ago, so for now - I am going on a lot of faith and heresay.

Last edited by parinoid54; 03-07-2011 at 12:17 PM.

03-07-2011, 03:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by mach1337 Sorry but I have to share this short story... A really good friend of mine who shares the same love for guns as I do always has this conversaiton everytime one of us goes to buy a new gun... He always said that he would never buy a 9mm because it didnt have enough stopping power. Always said he would never go smaller then .40. Sad part now. He got shot a week ago. He is fine now and recovering. But he was shot with a 9mm. And not a good shot at that. Got him in the stomach about a inch above his right hip and exited after it clipped his left hip. Took out about 12 inches of small intestine and split his colon in half. Well first thing he said to me when I got to the hospital was and Im not even joking "sherman remember how I said 9mm is a P!\$\$& round. Well I was wrong" He was drunk when it happened and believe me he stopped instantly. thats my argument for stoppng power...
For whatever it may be worth to you and others (and your friend), your story was the icing on the cake for me. I am selling my 380 as my "back up" and replacing it with a 9mm. At least now that some, like Ruger LC9, are making them in small enough packages to deep carry. Please tell your friend that I ask God be with him and comfort him.

Last edited by parinoid54; 03-07-2011 at 04:22 AM.

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