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So which brand of 1911 is the Best?


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Old 04-10-2014, 12:43 AM   #51
disappointed & disgusted, But DETERMINED...
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If I were still able to Shoot 45ACP I would agree with "Staying away" from short 1911's(except maybe the Springfield EMP), for Personal Protection. If I were still carrying for "work/Service" I would not carry anything shorter Then 4"...Except for Ultra Concealment, which is what I EDCC now..


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Old 04-11-2014, 11:15 AM   #52
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I will tell you to stay away from Kimbers. I had a Tachtical Pro II that ejected the shell and reinserted it case mouth aft. The frame cracked and they wouldn't honor the warranty because I had a shorter trigger installed. They look nice but as I told the company rep who told me that "its like a Ferrari, you can't put after market parts in it".
That company rep sounds like an idiot. I just talked to a guy at DPMS over a concern I had with a AR-308. He was very condescending and never really answered my question. But I don't think that the customer service at DMPS sucks because of one guy, or that all their products are shoddy because of one problem. They sell lots of rifles so they must be doing something right.
Same with Kimber. I have had a half dozen Kimbers, and my CPD has been my main carry gun for 15 years now. I never had a problem in any way with any of them. I did have lots of problems with a half dozen Colt 1911's I had back in the 70's and 80's, several would not function out of the box (with hardball!) and cracked frames on the Commander alloy, but I don't tell people never to buy a Colt. They make lots of guns and I'm sure most all of them work great. It sounds like your extractor was broken or the tension very low. Not sure how a backwards brass case could crack a frame. If my 1911 was starting to pitch the empties weakly I would check it it with my Weigand tool. Just saying, don't bash a company because of one rude customer service rep or all of a company's products because of one problem.
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Old 04-11-2014, 12:27 PM   #53
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That company rep sounds like an idiot. I just talked to a guy at DPMS over a concern I had with a AR-308. He was very condescending and never really answered my question. But I don't think that the customer service at DMPS sucks because of one guy, or that all their products are shoddy because of one problem. They sell lots of rifles so they must be doing something right.
Same with Kimber. I have had a half dozen Kimbers, and my CPD has been my main carry gun for 15 years now. I never had a problem in any way with any of them. I did have lots of problems with a half dozen Colt 1911's I had back in the 70's and 80's, several would not function out of the box (with hardball!) and cracked frames on the Commander alloy, but I don't tell people never to buy a Colt. They make lots of guns and I'm sure most all of them work great. It sounds like your extractor was broken or the tension very low. Not sure how a backwards brass case could crack a frame. If my 1911 was starting to pitch the empties weakly I would check it it with my Weigand tool. Just saying, don't bash a company because of one rude customer service rep or all of a company's products because of one problem.
I had a Kimber Pro Crimson Carry II that had problems. It wouldn't strip the last round from any magazine, Kimber or otherwise. After three trips to Kimber for warranty repair it was in much worse shape than when I sent it in the first time including damage done at the hands of Kimber. Can you tell me why I shouldn't relate my customer "service?" experience when people ask for opinions about Kimber?
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:50 PM   #54
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That company rep sounds like an idiot. I just talked to a guy at DPMS over a concern I had with a AR-308. He was very condescending and never really answered my question. But I don't think that the customer service at DMPS sucks because of one guy, or that all their products are shoddy because of one problem. They sell lots of rifles so they must be doing something right.
Same with Kimber. I have had a half dozen Kimbers, and my CPD has been my main carry gun for 15 years now. I never had a problem in any way with any of them. I did have lots of problems with a half dozen Colt 1911's I had back in the 70's and 80's, several would not function out of the box (with hardball!) and cracked frames on the Commander alloy, but I don't tell people never to buy a Colt. They make lots of guns and I'm sure most all of them work great. It sounds like your extractor was broken or the tension very low. Not sure how a backwards brass case could crack a frame. If my 1911 was starting to pitch the empties weakly I would check it it with my Weigand tool. Just saying, don't bash a company because of one rude customer service rep or all of a company's products because of one problem.
The stories of Kimber basically weaseling out of their rather short warranty are sadly, not really that rare. There's also the "500 round break in" BS that they drag out when the mood strikes them. "Kimber builds them tight and you gotta shoot them to get them loosen up right." BS. If other companies can build a match grade gun and have it work right out of the box, then Kimber's doing it wrong.
Simply put, there are too many stories about Kimber's poor handing of customer problems for them to all be outliers. Then there's the stupidly short 1 year warranty.
Sorry, but when a low cost brand like Rock Island can offer a lifetime warranty and earn a reputation for excellent CS, what exactly is Kimber's excuse? Kimber makes good looking pistols and a significant amount of them probably work fine for the majority of owners. But until they bring their after sale support up to industry standard, there are enough question marks with them that I would rather buy a Springfield or any number of other competitors.
Similar money+similar product - are going to order from the company with a solid rep for helping customers or the company with a constant flow of angry customers?
Do I believe Kimbers suck? As a general rule, no. But for a company that puts themselves out there as "the choice of America's Best," ought to come with a bit less baggage.
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:41 PM   #55
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Kimber appears to be selling a LOT of guns. So from a strictly business standpoint they don't need to change anything. You ever wonder why we have Motel 6's and Dollar stores everywhere? It's not because they are the best, cleanest or fanciest company in their industry. But they serve a price point or style that appeals to a large number of people. Kimber makes nice looking guns that work often enough to sell a crap load of them. If they tinker with warranty changes or manufacturing changes that will change their cost structure, and possibly harm their bottom line. Plus none of us really know enough detail about their business model to question them. If enough people stop buying their guns for real or perceived quality and warranty issues, then they will makes changes.


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Old 04-11-2014, 07:03 PM   #56
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Kimber appears to be selling a LOT of guns. So from a strictly business standpoint they don't need to change anything. You ever wonder why we have Motel 6's and Dollar stores everywhere? It's not because they are the best, cleanest or fanciest company in their industry. But they serve a price point or style that appeals to a large number of people. Kimber makes nice looking guns that work often enough to sell a crap load of them. If they tinker with warranty changes or manufacturing changes that will change their cost structure, and possibly harm their bottom line. Plus none of us really know enough detail about their business model to question them. If enough people stop buying their guns for real or perceived quality and warranty issues, then they will makes changes.


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We know enough to know that they aren't exactly operating on a bargain basement price structure. If ARMSCOR can build a better customer service dept in support if a lifetime warranty with what are entry level prices, there can be no pity party for Kimber's cost structure.

We know that their marketing dept can afford a lot of expensive glossy ads in magazines.

We know that there are occasionally enough issues that it might be worth someone having a good look.

IMHO, if Kimber backed up their products better, I'd welcome it and probably jump on board the Kimber party wagon. They build nice looking products. Again, I'm not a hater, I simply see their current CS structure as a large enough negative to look elsewhere. If one presents their product as a premium choice, most people will expect premium (polite, non antagonistic) after sales support for longer than one year.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:15 AM   #57
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People should report problems to make other shooters aware of poor customer service. I personally don't have any experience with Kimber's CS as I've never had a problem with any of their products I've owned. I have heard stories from others though. I have found that if you can't get satisfaction from an individual at a business, try to talk to someone else. Often you will get three different answers if you talk to three different people. A few months ago I sent a Mini -14 stock back to Hogue. No defects in the stock other than it was advertised as "ghillie green" and the stock I received was a sick shade of blue grey. The returns lady offered to trade it for an O.D. green one and e mailed me a pic of it. I sent my stock in, and after waiting patiently for 3 weeks, still had not received the new stock. I called and talked to her again and was told their returns department was really slammed and it might be several more weeks before she could get the new stock in the mail. She declined to let me speak with someone else, so the next time I called I asked to speak to Aaron or Patrick Hogue, sons of the founder of Hogue, Guy. They are currently the president and vice president of Hogue. Patrick apologized for the poor customer service and had my stock shipped off within a half an hour.
We all deal with businesses every day that have employees that seem to hate their job, and shouldn't be in a position to deal with others. Go over their heads and go to their supervisor, or someone else that IS concerned with the companies image and reputation. Maybe next time that person that didn't give you any satisfaction will be a little more understanding, or at least be sent packing to another department where they don't have to deal with the public.
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Old 04-12-2014, 01:26 PM   #58
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We know enough to know that they aren't exactly operating on a bargain basement price structure. If ARMSCOR can build a better customer service dept in support if a lifetime warranty with what are entry level prices, there can be no pity party for Kimber's cost structure.

We know that their marketing dept can afford a lot of expensive glossy ads in magazines.

We know that there are occasionally enough issues that it might be worth someone having a good look.

IMHO, if Kimber backed up their products better, I'd welcome it and probably jump on board the Kimber party wagon. They build nice looking products. Again, I'm not a hater, I simply see their current CS structure as a large enough negative to look elsewhere. If one presents their product as a premium choice, most people will expect premium (polite, non antagonistic) after sales support for longer than one year.
In all fairness, the person I dealt with at Kimber was very polite and sympathetic. Unfortunately, their "master gunsmith" couldn't fix my problem. After three trips to Kimber they managed to create enough damage to my firearm to okay the refund I requested.

Did they replace the money spent on ammo trying to break in their defective product? Of course not, in spite of the fact that I had all my receipts. Did they pay for the background checks related to receiving the firearm back from them? Of course not. Owning a Kimber was a very expensive lesson that I will not forget.
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:29 PM   #59
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My Kimber rifle has been perfect. 😀


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Old 04-15-2014, 05:07 AM   #60
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The stories of Kimber basically weaseling out of their rather short warranty are sadly, not really that rare. There's also the "500 round break in" BS that they drag out when the mood strikes them. "Kimber builds them tight and you gotta shoot them to get them loosen up right." BS. If other companies can build a match grade gun and have it work right out of the box, then Kimber's doing it wrong.
Simply put, there are too many stories about Kimber's poor handing of customer problems for them to all be outliers. Then there's the stupidly short 1 year warranty.
Sorry, but when a low cost brand like Rock Island can offer a lifetime warranty and earn a reputation for excellent CS, what exactly is Kimber's excuse? Kimber makes good looking pistols and a significant amount of them probably work fine for the majority of owners. But until they bring their after sale support up to industry standard, there are enough question marks with them that I would rather buy a Springfield or any number of other competitors.
Similar money+similar product - are going to order from the company with a solid rep for helping customers or the company with a constant flow of angry customers?
Do I believe Kimbers suck? As a general rule, no. But for a company that puts themselves out there as "the choice of America's Best," ought to come with a bit less baggage.
The whole "Kimber breakin" is a company scam, while I own a gen II Kimber and haven't had any problems. It was a second to the second hand buy so I no ideal how many rounds tru it? I bought a brand new Les Baer Premier II and took 8 mags of hardball(mixed ammo) and simply fired and loaded the next mag as quickly as I would w a Les and had no hang ups.
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