reasons for NOT getting a 1911 - Page 2
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Old 07-15-2009, 11:02 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by canebrake View Post
50% of the FTF/FTE issues with a 1911 is operator error, or as I like to call it, PEBTAH (Problem Exists Between Trigger And Holster) or dirtbag owner maintenance. (See PEBTAH)

The other 50% is directly related to the cost of production of the weapon. NOTE: I DID NOT SAY THE PRICE OF THE WEAPON!

A good running 1911 will cost you 1,000 to 1,500$. Oh yea, you can pay way more but will get little return on any dollar spent over 1.5K. (Remember I'm speaking to a good running 1911, NOT a custom firearm!)

This means if you buy a $400 1911 and want a reliable CCW firearm that I would trust my life with, plan on putting $600+ in upgrade parts such as, but not limited to: Real engineered mags, billet or forged parts to replace the MIM junk, a quality ignition system, a "real" barrel, quality/current technology springs, and a pair of stocks that fit the 1911 to your strong side hand with good purchase.

If you want that $400 1911 to go plinkin' at the range, go for it.

If you, on the other hand, think that with that same $400 purchase plus a $20 Fobus and a freshly inked CCW license make you armed and safe you may be found face down in a pool of your own blood.

“Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.” J. Cooper


With the majority of production firearms today, the above applies. No brand or model holds the "WORST" firearm title.

That is held by the collective group of IDIOTS that produce the problems! (See PEBTAH)
I paid $700 for mine. I've never had a problem, even with hollow point ammo. The feed ramp is baby bottom smooth and it's lowered, it has a drastically lowered ejection port and a nice trigger. Oddly enough though, it's an even 25 which means that it was combed over closely by Kimber's QC department.

Like I said, it's never had a single issue. The action is buttery smooth. It's got over 10k rounds on the clock and it's still running the original factory springs.
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Old 07-15-2009, 11:28 PM   #12
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I have owned and/or used a verity of 1911a1’s over the last 40 years and even the older military issued one I had no problems with except bad mags. Once you get good quality mags most of the problems are taken care of. The Springfield Armory stainless I own now shoot so smoothly and reliable that I have no problem carrying it for protection.

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Old 07-16-2009, 12:17 AM   #13
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A good quality 1911 doesn't have to cost a fortune and yes, there are other excellent non-1911 semiautomatics out there.

However, there is nothing like a good 1911.

As far as reasons to not own a 1911? Ignorance, inexperience or perhaps teeny tiny testicles?

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Old 07-16-2009, 12:19 AM   #14
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Let's see - where to start??

First off, I would echo what Cane said, for the most part, except I believe a good, reliable 1911 CAN be had for less than a grand. That doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.

Now, on to reasons NOT to get a 1911:

10) You have been drinking the Hollywood & Printing Magazine Kool Aid for too long and you have never studied the modern firearm.

9) You are still young and believe you need a high capacity, double stacked, polymer pistol that is "what everyone else is carrying".

8) Someone on the Interwebz told you that 1911's are finicky and you never bothered to shoot one to make up your mind for yourself.

7) You've never handled one period.

6) Your boys haven't dropped yet.

5) You believe that anything with over 100 years of active military service simply should have been put out to pasture a long time ago and has surely been improved upon in the modern age.

4) You want to justify, to yourself or the Interwebz, that your $400 pistol is just as good as my 1911. Which is fine, but mine will still outshoot yours and I would bet my life on mine today, right now.

3) See Skullchrusher's Comment above....

2) You have never read the works of Jeff Cooper, Massad Ayoob, Larry Vickers, Charlie Beckwith, Eric Lee Haney and you have no idea who John Browning was or how his work applies to the modern firearm.


And finally, the number one reason NOT to buy a 1911....

1) You just don't know the difference between a quality, well built operational masterpiece and a pistol.

The good news is, we have a GREAT support group here. Ask questions. Come over to my place, or to Cane's or BobbyB's or Skull's or opaww's Range and shoot one of the damn things in the company of someone who KNOWS about the weapon and can explain to you what the positives are....

Don't let the hater signature fool you, 9 more days and Ineff's blasphemy signature will be replaced with vindication....

JD

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Old 07-16-2009, 12:30 AM   #15
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10. Your too young to own a pistol.

9. Your hands are too small.

8. You think Plastic is cool.

7. Your Ignorant of what a good pistol is.

6. You have not been around me, Cane, or JD (And Others here) for very long.

5. You are a sissy and can't handel a real pistol chambered in a real caliber.

4. Your a freekin mall ninja.

3. Your nads are the size of a squirrels.

2. Your STUPID.

1. You just want to stir the pot on a forum full of known 1911 owners and fans.

My $700 Kimber Custom II is one of the best guns in my safe. It has eaten everything I have ever put in it. From Black Hills reman ammo to Speer 230gr and 185gr Gold dots. To my own personal relaodes. Not a single FTF, FTE or any other malfunction.

99% of FTF, FTE on a 1911 come from the shooter limpwristing it or something along that line. If you know how to shoot a pistol and can shoot it good a 1911 will reward you with amazing accuracy that, Glock and XD owners can only dream of. Mine will out shoot me anyday of the week. I am not the best shot but you better believe within 75 yards I can hit you in the chest or back with my Kimber. If you want to test the accuracy of my 1911 and me Come over at about 2 am to my house.

It is also a proven fact that 99% of all criminals prefer to be shot with a 1911.



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This is your Brain on Glock:

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Old 07-16-2009, 12:31 AM   #16
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1911's rock. I currently own at least 14 of them, and have carried and used 1911's for most of my life. I will never be without at least one 1911.

But they are not flawless.

They are prone to having the plunger tube loosen or fall off.
They are prone to breaking bbl links and pins.
Barrel bushings can be problematic, especially colletted bushings.
I recently saw a thumb safety pin sheared off (attributed to torque caused by an offset hole in the grip safety) and it was not the first I've seen.
I've had MIM disconnectors and sears break, and know several others who have as well.
Extractor claws tend to break off if you run the extractor over the rim of a round dropped into the chamber.

The funniest "oops" I ever witnessed with a 1911 however was due to the firing pin spring being installed backwards. This caused the narrow end of the spring to grab the firing pin near the mid point. This kept the firing pin pulled forward which allowed the firing pin stop to fall out (due to gravity, as it was loose) during recoil, and when the slide went back into battery the firing pin and spring shot out the back end of the slide. This left the operator holding a harmless .45. Oops. While this was purely pilot error, and not common at all, it was indicative of what can happen when someone unfamiliar with the 1911 tries to detail strip one and reassemble.

But the 1911 still rocks.

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Old 07-16-2009, 12:35 AM   #17
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In my time as an instructor I have worked with students using widely varied guns. I have found that 1911's are not the best guns for beginners. A Glock, Sig, or M&P seem to work best for new shooters. To me the 1911 has always been the gun you move up to, not start with.

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Old 07-16-2009, 12:37 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Flint Rock View Post
In my time as an instructor I have worked with students using widely varied guns. I have found that 1911's are not the best guns for beginners. A Glock, Sig, or M&P seem to work best for new shooters. To me the 1911 has always been the gun you move up to, not start with.
Time for me to move up!!
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Old 07-16-2009, 12:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint Rock View Post
In my time as an instructor I have worked with students using widely varied guns. I have found that 1911's are not the best guns for beginners. A Glock, Sig, or M&P seem to work best for new shooters. To me the 1911 has always been the gun you move up to, not start with.
Please Elaborate on this stand. My first centerfire pistol was a 1911 I have had ZERO problems they are simple to field strip and care for the trigger pull is a million times better than a glock. They don't require Heman thumbs to stuff 9 millon rounds of sissy ammo into the mag.

Also I find this kind of funny. In the Army we had plenty of people who had never even handled a gun let alone fire one and they all seams to do ust fine with a 1911. Not sure if that was just a freek accident or what.
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Old 07-16-2009, 12:42 AM   #20
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That's an excellent observation Flint Rock. There's also a great deal of mythology around 1911's. They are definitely a pistol worth aspiring to.

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