I told you I was embarrassed............. Shortest answer is that I was rushing to test the loads before sun got too low to get consistent readings on the chrono. I noticed the recoil was "stout" but didn't take time to even look at the velocities. Just hurry and shoot till Kimber came apart in my hand. Later I found out my RCBS powder scale had switched from grains to grams which are a 15 to 1 ratio and didn't notice the decimal was off by one space so what I thought was 8.5 grains was really .85 grams which is about 13 grains. BOOM! A comedy of errors that could have been very ugly. See why I'm embarrassed........ but very impressed with the quality of those 2 guns. First major screw-up in 37 years of reloading.