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Old 04-23-2013, 03:38 PM   #51
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Yeah Hossfly, it kinda did but at the same time it is good to consider these kinds of things. However I'm still not convinced on the matter, so there's that...

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Originally Posted by MeatMarionette View Post
Do the courts just post up all the facts about cases like that? Lol seems reasonable to me to just not get Hollywood bloodthirsty looking punisher grips.
Last I checked when you googled something like this it was the media who posted such stories, no the courts. Media also tends to not hold back, so if there were a big case about something like this, it shouldn't be that difficult to find.

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Originally Posted by Milsurpshooter60 View Post
WOW sorry guy,s did not mean to start all this , just be told the first thing i was told in my ccw class was always carry factory ammo in ya carry gun ,I am sticking to it , I did say you can do as ya like.I will stick with the on the shelf stuff and have 0 evil look on my carry pistol,That is just me ,i know they can and somtimes will use it against ya. .Sure did not mean to staRT a controversy ill go back my corner now and stfu . If they want to aND can turn a so called self defense into you wanted to make sure he was dead trial, some states will. now hope that finishes that lol. in the end it is you're gun do as ya like.
You're fine, it was the thought that counts. It was something to consider, but considering there is no posted proof, I'm just not convinced it would really be an issue.

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Originally Posted by rifleman77 View Post
Let us know how you like your 1911. For some people it's like getting bit by a bug. I can't find a pistol I like the look or feel of over a 1911.
Thanks! I gotta select an FFL dealer now and have that bad boy sent my way!
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:41 PM   #52
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Bingo...

The Marty Hayes quote below describes my reality pretty darn close.

Liberal jurisdiction yet allowed to CCW in a State that has neither "Stand your Ground" or "Castle Doctrine".

This is why primary defensive pistols are:

Primary EDC... Kahr 9 mm
Winter EDC.... Kimber .45 ACP
HD.... Sig 226 .40 S&W & Remi 870 Pump

All of my defensive calibers are used by both my County Sheriff's department and my City Cops... and none of these guns have any "vigilant" or "tactical" accessories.

Grand Jury... "Mr. Tack, why did you choose the DEVASTATING power of a .45 ACP HOLLOW POINT?

Me... "Our local Peace Officers use this round because it's designed to safely stay within a "threat target" with little risk of over penetrating and hitting and innocent bystander".

...again... to each his own... but IMHO... winning the gunfight will be traumatic enough. No need to increase the likelihood of being charged with a crime for the "cool factor" of Hollywood Grips or Hot hand loads.

Tack



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Originally Posted by OlympicFox View Post
It's incredibly naive to think that a justifiable defensive shooting will result in the appropriate facts surfacing and the DA recognizing the obvious and deciding to not prosecute. This may well be typical for defensive shootings in the home, but defensive shootings outside the home usually result in an arrest, and frequently result in prosecution.

The real facts of life are:

1. The police generally assume that the guy laying in a pool of blood on the ground is the victim and the guy standing with the gun in his hand is the bad guy.

2. As a direct result of #1 above, the police will focus their energy on collecting evidence that supports #1. Evidence that contradicts #1 may be overlooked or even intentionally ignored or destroyed.

3. The DA is a lawyer. If that doesn't scare you enough, understand that the DA is also a politician. Most DA's want to appear tough on crime, so prosecuting shooters is very high on their wish list. DA's keep scores on their successful prosecution rate - successful prosecution is the goal, not justice. As a result, the DA's office will devote more resources to prosecute a murder than they would to a lesser crime.

4. The media is generally anti-gun. As a result, the media is loathe to publish/broadcast a story that supports gun ownership. Even if the facts scream self-defense, the media will frequently spin the facts & paint a picture of a killer.

5. The public defender's office is not as well funded as the DA's office. As a result, case loads for a public defender are often 10 times as great as a private attorney might take on, sometimes exceeding 500 felonies/year. Try to imagine how much time your PD is going to spend on your case when he/she is assigned 2 new cases every day.

6. The law does NOT require the public defender's office to provide the same quality of defense that the law requires of an independent defense attorney.

7. Criminal defense attorneys deal with criminals every day almost always their client is guilty. It is common for a defense attorney to have never defended an innocent client. As a result, the typical defense attorney assumes their client is guilty - their goal is to simply minimize the penalty, not to prove innocence. Plea bargaining is the routine - you will be pressured to plead guilty to some lesser version of murder with a shorter sentence, but you'll still be a convicted felon.

8. The laws regarding discovery say the DA must give your defense council any evidence they have. DA's frequently stall providing evidence to defense council, or worse.

Below are two quotes from Marty Hayes that may help you understand what I've said. If you're still not convinced, try reading the books by John Lott or Massad Ayoob.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:56 PM   #53
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there is another factor to consider, if i were hypothetically sitting in a court having to defend the type of ammo or the grips on my pistol when it was used in SD, then that means, i am still alive and the BG is dead.

for me, it comes back to the lesson i was taught many years ago by my father, better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six. i can also live with the fact that if killed to protect myself or my family and that i did what needed to be done.

though some good arguements and valid points made in opposition of mine, i will add this for consideration.

the same arguements could be made about any grips other than those put on that pistol by the factory.

they could always use the same arguement about using SD ammo in your firearms.

what about people who adorn their SD shotgun with lights and lasers, a folding stock and ammo carriers? same arguement could apply.

just something to think about.

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Old 04-23-2013, 07:36 PM   #54
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Which is why I don't add tactical stuff to defensive arms and I only use LE approved ammo.

Make's is really hard for a DA to paint me as "bloodthirsty" when my attorney could subpoena several city cops and deputies to testify to the contrary.

...again, I'm not questioning Axxe, or anyone elses decision. I just think this is a good conversation to have so all can evaluate there own jurisdiction and make an informed decision.

Tack

Quote:
Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
there is another factor to consider, if i were hypothetically sitting in a court having to defend the type of ammo or the grips on my pistol when it was used in SD, then that means, i am still alive and the BG is dead.

for me, it comes back to the lesson i was taught many years ago by my father, better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six. i can also live with the fact that if killed to protect myself or my family and that i did what needed to be done.

though some good arguements and valid points made in opposition of mine, i will add this for consideration.

the same arguements could be made about any grips other than those put on that pistol by the factory.

they could always use the same arguement about using SD ammo in your firearms.

what about people who adorn their SD shotgun with lights and lasers, a folding stock and ammo carriers? same arguement could apply.

just something to think about.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:21 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf_fl
There is a young lady in South America.
http://www.esmeralda.cc/
+1 on Esmeralda grips! She does awesome work. I brought a pair from her a couple of years ago and would definitely buy from her again. Top notch
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:34 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlympicFox

Bingo!!

Any gun you use for self-defense or home defense should be devoid of anything that suggests you're some kind of nut or vigilante. The image you want to make is that you are mature and responsible.

Personally, I prefer my 1911's to have smooth grips, and for my carry guns to have thin grips.

Thin walnut burl by Sarge

Thin Cocobolo by Esmerelda

White cocobolo by Fusion

My exception to smooth - G10 grips by VZ
Those are some of the purdiest 1911s and grips I have ever seen!
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:35 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
there is another factor to consider, if i were hypothetically sitting in a court having to defend the type of ammo or the grips on my pistol when it was used in SD, then that means, i am still alive and the BG is dead.

for me, it comes back to the lesson i was taught many years ago by my father, better to be judged by twelve, than carried by six. i can also live with the fact that if killed to protect myself or my family and that i did what needed to be done.

though some good arguements and valid points made in opposition of mine, i will add this for consideration.

the same arguements could be made about any grips other than those put on that pistol by the factory.

they could always use the same arguement about using SD ammo in your firearms.

what about people who adorn their SD shotgun with lights and lasers, a folding stock and ammo carriers? same arguement could apply.

just something to think about.

It's highly unlikely that you'd be sitting in court defending your choice of ammo or the accessories on your gun. Taking the stand indicates that your case is desperate and you're making a last ditch effort to stay out of jail, or your attorney is stupid.

Reality:

1. If you are in court - yes you are alive - however, being in court means that the DA is gunning for you. You do NOT want to be in the sights of the DA - DA's rarely lose.

2. The DA will tell the jury how nasty bad your wildcat ammo is, how the "Reaper" grips on your gun symbolize your attitude towards human life, yada yada.

3. The DA will tell the jury how the Bad Guy was the favorite son of his mom over there (crying). There will be photos of the Bad Guy when he was a kid growing up and looking all nice and innocent. Yada yada.

4. There will be people on the jury that are afraid of guns and afraid of people with guns. It's almost guaranteed that there won't be anyone on the jury that likes guns, is a CCW permit holder, etc. The jury may be your peers legally, but they won't be your friend.

And you will most likely go to jail for a long, long time.

Why give the DA free ammunition?

Use commercial self-defense ammo, or the same ammo used by LEOs in your area. Don't use too much gun - stick to common calibers. Avoid dressing up your gun with stuff that some liberal DA could point to and paint you as a crazy. Take classes on gun safety as well as self-defense classes - those classes demonstrate an interest in learning responsible self-defense.
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:38 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel1911 View Post
Those are some of the purdiest 1911s and grips I have ever seen!
Thanks!

Life is too short for an ugly gun.
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Old 05-03-2013, 07:53 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlympicFox View Post
It's highly unlikely that you'd be sitting in court defending your choice of ammo or the accessories on your gun. Taking the stand indicates that your case is desperate and you're making a last ditch effort to stay out of jail, or your attorney is stupid.

Reality:

1. If you are in court - yes you are alive - however, being in court means that the DA is gunning for you. You do NOT want to be in the sights of the DA - DA's rarely lose.

2. The DA will tell the jury how nasty bad your wildcat ammo is, how the "Reaper" grips on your gun symbolize your attitude towards human life, yada yada.

3. The DA will tell the jury how the Bad Guy was the favorite son of his mom over there (crying). There will be photos of the Bad Guy when he was a kid growing up and looking all nice and innocent. Yada yada.

4. There will be people on the jury that are afraid of guns and afraid of people with guns. It's almost guaranteed that there won't be anyone on the jury that likes guns, is a CCW permit holder, etc. The jury may be your peers legally, but they won't be your friend.

And you will most likely go to jail for a long, long time.

Why give the DA free ammunition?

Use commercial self-defense ammo, or the same ammo used by LEOs in your area. Don't use too much gun - stick to common calibers. Avoid dressing up your gun with stuff that some liberal DA could point to and paint you as a crazy. Take classes on gun safety as well as self-defense classes - those classes demonstrate an interest in learning responsible self-defense.
well Mr. Olympic Fox, i Live in Texas, so therefor i probably won't have those concerns like others living in much more liberal states and cities. we have the Castle Law and the burden of proof is upon the DA to prove that the shooting wasn't justified. he has to have ample proof just to carry it before a Grand Jury to seek an indictment.

so here in Texas, we tend to not let the pansy liberals make decisions as to what we decide to use to defend our lives, the lives of our families and our property. yes you read that right, we can and are allowed to use lethal force to protect our property.
so your points and arguement might have some merit in a much more liberal state, but not here in Texas.

so here in Texas, if i were involved in a justified and righteous SD shooting, it's very highly unlikely i would be sitting in court having to defend my choice of ammo or pistol accessories.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:42 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlympicFox View Post
Thanks!

Life is too short for an ugly gun.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm surprised this is still going on, I decided to get black checkered grips for now which look awesome! Matches the blackhawk quite well other than the finish could be shinier lol
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