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Old 04-21-2013, 03:28 PM   #31
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YES the da will use anything in some states to convict the self defense shooter, its documented fact that reloads are a bad idea on the street but you can do as ya please ,just know what ccoa has posted and read in guns and ammo a few times. exact examples ?im sure if you look long enough you will find some that the da claimed it was a case of he made mankiller bullets and was with intent to kill well duh, but to a jury???? ide rather be on the side that used what was on shelf and not have that worry .If it says self defense ,personel defense on box , they have no arguement ,never think they cant do something , they want ya they will get ya on anything they can think of.do as ya please, me im sticking with whats on shelf on streets.Fine line between justifiable and prison my freind.jmo.
you're saying documented facts, then please show these facts. i'm saying it's nothing more than internet rumors and a bunch of hogwash, unless you can show proof.

i believe i asked for proof such as to some links where the choice of ammo or grips helped convict someone when their weapon was used for self defence.

please provide links or references to these documented facts, as you called them. Guns and Ammo is a magazine, that may have had a story written by a staff writer with his opinion of such things. that still is not documented facts.

a word of caution, unless you want people calling BS on you're statements, provide actual proof that can be referenced or links to that proof that others can verify. otherwise it's an opinion, not fact.
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:29 PM   #32
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YES the da will use anything in some states to convict the self defense shooter, its documented fact that reloads are a bad idea on the street but you can do as ya please ,just know what ccoa has posted and read in guns and ammo a few times. exact examples ?im sure if you look long enough you will find some that the da claimed it was a case of he made mankiller bullets and was with intent to kill well duh, but to a jury???? ide rather be on the side that used what was on shelf and not have that worry .If it says self defense ,personel defense on box , they have no arguement ,never think they cant do something , they want ya they will get ya on anything they can think of.do as ya please, me im sticking with whats on shelf on streets.Fine line between justifiable and prison my freind.jmo.
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There it is again--WHAT documentation
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Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
you're saying documented facts, then please show these facts. i'm saying it's nothing more than internet rumors and a bunch of hogwash, unless you can show proof.

i believe i asked for proof such as to some links where the choice of ammo or grips helped convict someone when their weapon was used for self defence.

please provide links or references to these documented facts, as you called them. Guns and Ammo is a magazine, that may have had a story written by a staff writer with his opinion of such things. that still is not documented facts.

a word of caution, unless you want people calling BS on you're statements, provide actual proof that can be referenced or links to that proof that others can verify. otherwise it's an opinion, not fact.
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:48 PM   #33
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Personally... I would not adorn any "defensive" pistol with "Punisher" grips... or "Death Wish" grips... or any grip that glorifies a Hollywood Vigilante.

Should you ever be forced to defend your life with this tool, it will become "evidence", an the chance of an anti-self defense prosecutor, flashing those "evil" looking grips at the jury, is a real concern.

Just my .02 Cents...

Tack
Bingo!!

Any gun you use for self-defense or home defense should be devoid of anything that suggests you're some kind of nut or vigilante. The image you want to make is that you are mature and responsible.

Personally, I prefer my 1911's to have smooth grips, and for my carry guns to have thin grips.


Thin walnut burl by Sarge



Thin Cocobolo by Esmerelda













White cocobolo by Fusion



My exception to smooth - G10 grips by VZ
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:57 PM   #34
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I don't know about "verifiable facts" but over the years, I too have read multiple articles... Mostly is American Handguner... Written by folks who testify as expert witnesses in both LEO and Armed Citizen shootings.

The common advice I've taken away from these articles is the notion that in their experience... "which significantly trumps mine"... Overzealous DA's looking for a conviction will use everything from "scary grips" to "devastating" handloads too paint a defensive shooter as a vigilante out looking for trouble.

I've seen them specifically mention "Punisher" grips as a bad idea and I've seen many of them recommend loads that say "Defensive" on the box OR to use the same load your Sherrif's department uses.

I don't know if this information rises to the level of "verifiable facts" but it sounds like solid advice to me... and I follow it, but to each his own.

Tack

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you're saying documented facts, then please show these facts. i'm saying it's nothing more than internet rumors and a bunch of hogwash, unless you can show proof.

i believe i asked for proof such as to some links where the choice of ammo or grips helped convict someone when their weapon was used for self defence.

please provide links or references to these documented facts, as you called them. Guns and Ammo is a magazine, that may have had a story written by a staff writer with his opinion of such things. that still is not documented facts.

a word of caution, unless you want people calling BS on you're statements, provide actual proof that can be referenced or links to that proof that others can verify. otherwise it's an opinion, not fact.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:13 PM   #35
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Tack i respect your opinions, but i have to disagree with this because of simple facts.

if a person used their firearm in a SD and the situation was justified, then how can they use what grips or ammo you used in it, against you? the shooting in SD would have to be either justified or not.

i am not saying some DA might not want to, simply because he was some rabid anti-gunner looking to make points with the crowd, but he still has to get a grand jury to indict the person. and even if it did make it to trial, and the shooting was justified, even a decent defence attorney would shred that DA for sure. because they have to decide on facts and evidence, not conjecture or speculation.

IMO, any DA going after someone for shooting in SD over the ammo or grips he used would probably be committing political suicide.

i too have read some of those types of articles in the past, and IMO, those are strictly opinions by these experts. most of those experts are just staff writers for the magazines.

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Old 04-21-2013, 05:29 PM   #36
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Axxe...

No worries partner, this is one of those individual decisions we all make after reviewing the information at hand.

Personally... Not knowing my areas DA... I'll err on the side of caution and not provide the Grand Jury with anything "flashy" or "devastating" that could be seen as aggressive.

Tack

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Old 04-21-2013, 05:32 PM   #37
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OlympicFox the 2nd and 3rd 1911's are absolutely GORGEOUS! I wouldn't mind having the cocbolo grips, are they made for the full size? I am thinking I may just get plain black checkered for now, but those may just be a future investment

BTW, I don't mind you guys clarifying this dispute in my thread just for the record, it's really good info to have straight.

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Old 04-21-2013, 05:43 PM   #38
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IMO, if a DA went after someone for the ammo or grips on his pistol used in a shooting, might be some deeper aspects to the case and he has some reason to suspect foul play.

this strictly my opinion on the matter. i have read several articles in the past by writers, touting this information. don't use anything but factory ammo in your firearm, or they'll swear you loaded up some super duper mankiller ammo. gee, doesn't even factory ammo kill? don't many of us look for what works the best at stopping a threat? like velocity, penetration and expansion?

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Old 04-21-2013, 05:59 PM   #39
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Agreed... but the amount of weight a person gives this information is directly linked to their location.

I'm in the predominantly "LIBTARDED" Pacific North West so it's fairly safe for me to expect any DA I may have to deal with to be a full blown member of PETA, NAACP, and the Brady Campaing to stop Gun Violence.

Tack

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IMO, if a DA went after someone for the ammo or grips on his pistol used in a shooting, might be some deeper aspects to the case and he has some reason to suspect foul play.

this strictly my opinion on the matter. i have read several articles in the past by writers, touting this information. don't use anything but factory ammo in your firearm, or they'll swear you loaded up some super duper mankiller ammo. gee, doesn't even factory ammo kill? don't many of us look for what works the best at stopping a threat? like velocity, penetration and expansion?
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:19 PM   #40
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Thanks Bart! I'm on several different forms and I'm always surprised to see that I usually get forgotten about. Surprising because I've been around longer than the usual suspects and probably sold more sets of grips than 90% of the other custom makers, including making grips directly for an ultra-high-end 1911 manufacturer.

But I can always count on you to be sure an include me. Not only here, but elsewhere too. It doesn't go unnoticed and it's greatly appreciated!
Did I read a thread recently where you said you were going to be making some officer size grips, or was that just wishful thinking on my part?
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