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-   -   Nighthawk's and other high end 1911's (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f57/nighthawks-other-high-end-1911s-37020/)

Yunus 01-17-2011 07:28 PM

Nighthawk's and other high end 1911's
 
What separates these 1911's from say a Taurus or RIA or even a Colt or Springfiled or Kimber?

I know that this is a subjective question and some will say they are not worth the money but for those that feel they are worth the money (JD I'm looking in your direction) what do they bring to the table or do better than the other available brands?

DrumJunkie 01-17-2011 07:45 PM

First off thew fit will be much better. The less slop in the parts the more accurate it can be. You can see things like hand fitted barrels and slides hand fitted to the frame. Barrel bushings fitted so that the barrel (yup..Also hand fitted many times) have no slop. Tighter lock up can get you better groups.

It all boils down to just how well you want the thing to perform. Bare in mind though that sometimes this does not work as well as expected.But with most the makers that have been around a while making custom guns they have worked through the growing pains and are putting out a weapon that can stand apart from the herd. Makers are always looking for ways to make something better. From fundamental design to what the parts are made from and how they are produced. Any high end 1911 if it's going to really be worth the money are all hand fit. This is a double edged sword though. You'rte not going to find replacement parts (if needed) at midway or the like. And unless you are a pretty decent gunsmith you will be sending the thing back in to be serviced.

Just like the people that seek out their dream 1911 the ways they are manufactured can vary a great deal. Me personally am not one that sees the benefit of a custom pistol built for me. But that might also be the poor man in me saying that :o I can do most all the work to my pistols myself.I don't think I would be so quick to want to take down and rebuild a Nighthawk. But if I did have one maybe that would not be as important. Meaning if I was in a position to buy one then sending it off to get serviced would not be unrealistic. For my shooting I've not seen enough of an improvement to make a custom build cost effective. But I can honestly say holding one is an awesome thing. I can only imagine holding one that I owned being that much more great.

Bottom line think about it like this. You buy an RIA and get 4" groups at 35 yards if you're doing your part. Then yo go get a nice upper shelf Colt and see those groups tighten up to 3" or under. Now put a hand fit pistol in your hand and if you are steady you are making ragged holes. You can get a decent weapon and not be a custom job. But there is a reason they make them. A well fit 1911 is a thing of beauty. A perfect fit 1911 with everything being fit to that specific weapon is all that and much more.

gunsavy 01-17-2011 08:13 PM

Buying a more expensive version of a firearm and having the cheaper one work better is something i have always been afraid of.

CA357 01-17-2011 08:34 PM

I had a SA Mil Spec as my first 1911 and it was a good pistol. It was an excellent first 1911.

I then had a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special and it was the tightest 1911 I ever fired. There was a huge difference in fit and finish.

Somewhere along the line I sold the Baer and bought a Dan Wesson Commander Bobtail. It felt better and shot better than the Baer for considerably less money.

I then bought a RIA Tactical and it had feeding problems. I never felt comfortable with it because I felt I couldn't trust it. So I sold it.

My next 1911 was my 1927 Sistema. It went to the gunsmith to be made into my ideal 1911. It has everything I want and nothing more. It is not as tight as the Baer or the CBOB was, but I shoot it instinctively and well. It will stay with me until I take the dirt nap.

The CBOB is the only one I miss. It was a perfect combination of fit, finish, accuracy and excellent feel. However, I can't justify the new higher price to replace it.

I currently also have a RIA 1911A1 and it too has feed problems, just like the Tactical model. I am waiting to get some type of solution to the problem from Armscor and then I'm going to get rid of it. I will never again buy a RIA.

I realize this thread is about higher end pistols, but that's my experience with a range of variously priced 1911's.

danf_fl 01-17-2011 10:56 PM

I've got RIA, Taurus, Springfield, Fusion, Dan Wesson, and Ed Brown.

There is a difference in quality "felt" at you go up the line. The Springer shoots groups like the Ed Brown, but the Springer was used in competition for years and has years of tweaks applied to it.

Always buy the best you can afford.

Dillinger 01-17-2011 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yunus (Post 423932)
I know that this is a subjective question and some will say they are not worth the money but for those that feel they are worth the money (JD I'm looking in your direction) what do they bring to the table or do better than the other available brands?

Why I gots to be all singled out and shi*ite?? :eek:

I need time to formulate a really well thought out answer for you Yunus and I am packing for SHOT this evening, so I don't have the time to mic everything and show you some detailed pictures with arrows and big flashy circles.

The short answer is they are worth it for the hand fitting of each and every part. It makes a WORLD of difference in how the weapon feels, how it handles, how it lacks "rattle" and finally how it shoots.

I just posted a couple of targets from my Nighthawk AAC and those were the first few rounds I ran through the weapon. It was DEAD ON accurate and there was no break in period, no "getting used to the ammo" or anything else that you hear in the cyber world about 1911's.

This thing went from case, to smoking with both Winchester White Box and PMC Range crap without any notice in accuracy and the targets speak for themselves.

Bottom line, a top of the line 1911 is hand fitted and it will run circles around a production run 1911 "out of the box". That doesn't mean that ANY 1911 can't be tuned, or that they are not better than every other pistol out there :p.

It just means that stone cold, a well built 1911 is like a Ferrari or a high end Porsche. You are paying for performance and when you turn the key, it's more power/handling/style and ability ( or in this case accuracy, fit and feel ) than you are capable of putting to use. It gives you as a shooter room to grow into the weapon instead of having to tune the weapon to what you want it to do.

As Shi said "Buy the best YOU can afford" and go from there. Parts, tuning and shop time all cost money. You can spend it up front, or you can spend it in pieces tuning it to what you like.

I buy Nighthawk pistols because I met 3 of the co-founders at SHOT a few years ago and they impressed the hell out of me with their mission statement, their passion and their products. I appreciate that kind of passion and love for a product in this age of ship it overseas and put our name on it, screw the customer and who cares about customer service age we are living in.

That's about the best I can offer other than inviting you out West for a weekend and letting you see for yourself. ;)

JD

Yunus 01-17-2011 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 424099)
Why I gots to be all singled out and shi*ite?? :eek:

I just posted a couple of targets from my Nighthawk AAC and those were the first few rounds I ran through the weapon.

That's why I singled you out, I know some others have Nighthawks but I couldn't think of any of them off the top of my head. I'm trying to convince a guy to get a 1911 and I want him to go high end so I can try it :)

JonM 01-18-2011 12:18 AM

it depends on your personal philosophy on 1911's.

if my 1911 doesnt rattle i think there is something wrong with it. as long as the barrel to bushing to slide lock up tight the slide can rattle on the frame all it wants. the sights are attached to the slide not the frame. long as the barrel is solid in battery every cycle in the same relationship everytime thats all that matters to me.

will my rattle traps reach out to 50 yards from a machine rest with the same precision as a handfitted tuned 1911?? prolly not. but i am not capable of shooting to such a degree. mine are fun range guns and self defense guns or a collector pieces with historical value.

for me the price isnt worth it.

for you, dunno. if you want one and can afford one they are very fine guns and superb shooters. ive fired a few and they are sweet and worth every penny if thats what fits you. i may add one to my collection at some point but that is purely a wish item. there is a class 3 m16a1, a 1903a3, and a nice super grade 30-06 ahead of it.

HOSSFLY 01-18-2011 02:15 AM

In my limited exsperence its mostly price :o
I've had RIA's that out shot Colts - Heck i've had Llamas that outshot Colts :eek:
Not sayin quality don't count - MOST times quality cost-
Just sayin a $1500 hooker might not be better than a $150 one :rolleyes:

M14sRock 01-18-2011 04:54 AM

I've owned scores of 1911's, in all price ranges, over the years.

The high end guns are worth the money because they have people building them that actually know what they are doing, and care about the finished product.

You won't find Nighthawks, Les Baers, Wilsons, STIs, etc with cosmetic blems and mis-fit parts. They are built to exacting standards, by people who take pride in their work. Artisans.


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