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Old 03-05-2012, 02:15 AM   #21
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i agree with Cane on this. the New Agent is about concealment, not target shooting. it's a pistol designed for up close and personal, which is what an attack on your person would be. up close and personal, sights will be useless and if you are ever in that situation, and are determined to use sights, you will probably end up dead. practice with a pistol like the New Agent should be 5 yards or less, which is what it's designed for.
When you can smell the BG's bad breath you proximity eliminates any room to use your sights!

Your gun will be inches from your holster on the first shot. Tough to get your head down there for sight shooting.
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Old 03-05-2012, 02:43 AM   #22
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When you can smell the BG's bad breath you proximity eliminates any room to use your sights!

Your gun will be inches from your holster on the first shot. Tough to get your head down there for sight shooting.
exactly! i don't think they will allow a person to have time bring the gun up to position and use the sights. you just point and shoot at the largest part of the target.
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:26 PM   #23
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I think it was Mass state troopers but a study was done on every time a trooper fired his weapon. The hit ratio was 1 in 5 and they were not very happy w it. The problem was point shooting and exactly as another member said, they kept their eyes on the bad guy and never used the guns sights.

A company made this point their logo - "Frontsight". Please be advised : I'm not saying its easy and lasers help but from what little we know, even the Old West gunfighters took a second to look at the sights before firing.

We can debate how much training is enough - quality, quantity etc. I forget how much training State Police actually get in shooting but a 20 percent or 1 in 5 under stress ain't getting the job done.

I debated if I should even bring this up as I missed the next episode of the G&A magazine where the writer, hopefully, brought up his solution. (Applegate - OSS, FBI urban tng etc. were all considered but how to standardize for mass production is not easy.)

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Old 03-05-2012, 06:09 PM   #24
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I think it was Mass state troopers but a study was done on every time a trooper fired his weapon. The hit ratio was 1 in 5 and they were not very happy w it. The problem was point shooting and exactly as another member said, they kept their eyes on the bad guy and never used the guns sights.

A company made this point their logo - "Frontsight". Please be advised : I'm not saying its easy and lasers help but from what little we know, even the Old West gunfighters took a second to look at the sights before firing.

We can debate how much training is enough - quality, quantity etc. I forget how much training State Police actually get in shooting but a 20 percent or 1 in 5 under stress ain't getting the job done.

I debated if I should even bring this up as I missed the next episode of the G&A magazine where the writer, hopefully, brought up his solution. (Applegate - OSS, FBI urban tng etc. were all considered but how to standardize for mass production is not easy.)
Law Enforcement is my career of choice, (I start the academy in October), so I have a higher opinion of police officers than your average person. With that said, there are a lot of police officers that couldn't shoot their way out of a paper bag with a Howitzer.

I have a good friend who is the firearms instructor for the city I like in. It's a decent sized city, 30,000+, with a decent sized agency, 70+ officers. They are also the highest paying agency in the county, starting pay is just over $42,000, so they pretty much have their pick of who they want to hire.

My friend has told me that about 50% of the officers have trouble with their yearly qualification. He has explained the qualification to me, and to be frank, it is a joke. They fire 30 rounds at a silhouette, and must get 27 of the 30 rounds in the gray. About 20 of these 30 rounds are fired within 7 yards. I'm not a great shooter by any means, but I'm pretty sure I could do that one handed, with my support hand at that.

Now granted, this could be an isolated situation, which I doubt, but ever since then, I've never bought into any of the info about cops shoot poorly when doing technique x or y, because frankly, from what I've heard from reputable sources, a lot of cops suck at shooting.

Take that for what it's worth.

-Fred
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:14 PM   #25
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Sorry to get off topic. I haven't seen it said yet, but how about the new Sig 938? Very similar to the 238, just bigger and chambered in 9mm. I don't think it comes out for another month or two, but they have the MSRP set at $795, so you could probably pick one up for $650 or so once they come out.

Just another suggestion.

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Old 03-05-2012, 06:19 PM   #26
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We can debate how much training is enough - quality, quantity etc. I forget how much training State Police actually get in shooting but a 20 percent or 1 in 5 under stress ain't getting the job done.
I can tell you what my thoughts on when training (including practice) as a CCW licensee will be enough.

I will stop training, practicing and learning when I reach final slide lock-back. (...when I take my final breath.)
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Old 03-05-2012, 07:22 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Gonzilla View Post
I think it was Mass state troopers but a study was done on every time a trooper fired his weapon. The hit ratio was 1 in 5 and they were not very happy w it. The problem was point shooting and exactly as another member said, they kept their eyes on the bad guy and never used the guns sights.

A company made this point their logo - "Frontsight". Please be advised : I'm not saying its easy and lasers help but from what little we know, even the Old West gunfighters took a second to look at the sights before firing.

We can debate how much training is enough - quality, quantity etc. I forget how much training State Police actually get in shooting but a 20 percent or 1 in 5 under stress ain't getting the job done.

I debated if I should even bring this up as I missed the next episode of the G&A magazine where the writer, hopefully, brought up his solution. (Applegate - OSS, FBI urban tng etc. were all considered but how to standardize for mass production is not easy.)
sorry but your comparison doesn't work. everyone knows that LEO carry a firearm. the idea behind CCW is concealment. two different types of carrying a firearm. the BG isn't suppose to know you are carrying. that's why it's called CCW. if the BG is in your face with a gun or knife demanding your wallet, are you going to take the time to use the sights and aim or just come out shooting as if your life depended on it? BTW, your life will depend on it in this situation.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:03 PM   #28
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Almost all training courses want you to concentrate on the front sight. They repeat it over and over. Hard to do when you don't have one.

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Old 03-05-2012, 11:09 PM   #29
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Almost all training courses want you to concentrate on the front sight. They repeat it over and over. Hard to do when you don't have one.
They repeat utter nonsense
Pull a weapon in a close up life & death situation & be dam sure you look for the front sight--
BANG- Too late--------------------
YOU'RE DEAD
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:16 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by HOSSFLY

They repeat utter nonsense
Pull a weapon in a close up life & death situation & be dam sure you look for the front sight--
BANG- Too late--------------------
YOU'RE DEAD
Amen.,.......... if he's in your face your gun will be in his belly when you pull it. Bont think I would need to aim anywhere under 10 feet for sure just point and shoot.
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