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Old 01-11-2012, 11:31 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandler51

Oh crap.

What did I do????
It wasn't you Chandler, it was h8dirt.
Trip do you hear the battle drums in the distance? And what's that, hooves of a pony riding up? Uh oh...
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g17frantz

It wasn't you Chandler, it was h8dirt.
Trip do you hear the battle drums in the distance? And what's that, hooves of a pony riding up? Uh oh...
Hooves of a pony? More like the four horsemen following orders. And those aren't battle drums, its the very earth trembling in fear!
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:58 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Chandler51 View Post
Well you know my next question then...what about the CZ? I hear good stuff for the most part, but have never had occasion to shoot one.
Excellent guns...lots of CZ75 fans out there. Wrap your hand around any one of these..... CZ75 Compact, P-01, P-06, CZ75-PCR ....and you'll buy one.

The P-01 passed these NATO requirements- from CZ website:

The pistol must be 100% reliable in extreme conditions, the following is a list of some of the minimum requirements.

Must be able to complete the following without failure:

4000 dry firings
3000 De-cockings
Operator level disassembly 1350 times with out ware or damage to components.
Complete disassembly 150 times, this is all the way down, pins, springs etc.
100% interchangability, any number of pistols randomly selected, disassembled, parts mixed and reassembled with no failures of any kind including loss of accuracy.


Safety requirements:

Drop test
1.5 meter (4.9”) drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

3meter drop (9.8”) 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

The pistol must also complete an environmental conditions test:
This means cold, heat, dust/sand and mud.
The pistol must fire after being frozen for 24 hours at –35C (-36F).
The pistol must fire after being heated for 24 hours at 70C (126F)
The pistol must fire after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations including being stripped of oil then completing the sand and mud tests again.

Service life:
The service life requirement from the Czech police was 15,000 rounds of +P ammo!
The pistol will exceed 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

Reliability:
The reliability requirements for the P-01 pistol are 99.8%, that’s a .2% failure rate.
This equals 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds or 500 “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF)
During testing, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired, this is a .05% failure rate, a MRBF rate of 2142 rounds! Over 4 time the minimum acceptable requirement.
The U.S. Army MRBF requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 grain Ball ammunition.
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Last edited by Sonic82; 01-11-2012 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:05 PM   #44
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I would like to check out a CZ 75. And if I were to come across one in polished stainless with wood grips, I'd be pining after it just like I am with the 1911.

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Old 01-11-2012, 07:56 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic82

Excellent guns...lots of CZ75 fans out there. Wrap your hand around any one of these..... CZ75 Compact, P-01, P-06, CZ75-PCR ....and you'll buy one.

The P-01 passed these NATO requirements- from CZ website:

The pistol must be 100% reliable in extreme conditions, the following is a list of some of the minimum requirements.

Must be able to complete the following without failure:

4000 dry firings
3000 De-cockings
Operator level disassembly 1350 times with out ware or damage to components.
Complete disassembly 150 times, this is all the way down, pins, springs etc.
100% interchangability, any number of pistols randomly selected, disassembled, parts mixed and reassembled with no failures of any kind including loss of accuracy.

Safety requirements:

Drop test
1.5 meter (4.9&rdquo drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

3meter drop (9.8&rdquo 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

The pistol must also complete an environmental conditions test:
This means cold, heat, dust/sand and mud.
The pistol must fire after being frozen for 24 hours at –35C (-36F).
The pistol must fire after being heated for 24 hours at 70C (126F)
The pistol must fire after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations including being stripped of oil then completing the sand and mud tests again.

Service life:
The service life requirement from the Czech police was 15,000 rounds of +P ammo!
The pistol will exceed 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

Reliability:
The reliability requirements for the P-01 pistol are 99.8%, that’s a .2% failure rate.
This equals 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds or 500 “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF)
During testing, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired, this is a .05% failure rate, a MRBF rate of 2142 rounds! Over 4 time the minimum acceptable requirement.
The U.S. Army MRBF requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 grain Ball ammunition.
Seriously? DAMN!

I can't imagine how you would even find a medium sized rock to do all that, and at the end still be a medium sized rock!

Think I'll go look at CZ's this weekend...it's about that time, anyway
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:08 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandler51 View Post
Seriously? DAMN!

I can't imagine how you would even find a medium sized rock to do all that, and at the end still be a medium sized rock!

Think I'll go look at CZ's this weekend...it's about that time, anyway
yeah..nearly all other companies would not participate in the NATO tests. And you should be able to get a new P-01 for under $600.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:35 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Chandler51 View Post
How are the EAA guns? I've never seen one in person...always kinda thought their commercials were cheesy (like most gun commercials seem to be)...what's the price range on them?
The Witness series are pretty good guns. Just hope you don't need their customer service. I've heard very little good about it. FWIW, I own a Witness Elite Match in .45. It has to be the deal of the year. a no-kidding match gun OTD for around $600ish. Mine will give my SA Trophy Match a run for it's money. Mags are somewhat uncommon and never cheap.

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Well you know my next question then...what about the CZ? I hear good stuff for the most part, but have never had occasion to shoot one.
CZ builds a good gun. They just don't have the advertising budget of Kimber. My 75BD has been no kidding, no excuses, 100% reliable. That, and they are just plain pleasant to shoot & accurate.

CZ also happens to own Dan Wesson, who put out a 1911 or two, that (IMHO) beat Kimber at their own game. Similar pricing (OK, maybe a bit more,) but with a 5 year warranty. That and their customer service guy helped me with a problem I was having on a used, out-of-warranty gun. Works for me. The fact they will continue to support the older revolvers tells me a lot as well.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:48 PM   #48
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Well I had a 4 inch Raptor in my hand on Monday. It is one pretty gun, there's no disputing that. I dry fired it few times and to be honest, wasn't overly impressed with the trigger.

The guy only had about a 100 rounds through it, so it could still ease up some. He hadn't had any issues so far. He knows about Kimber's c.s. reputation so if he does have problems, we both know a 1911 gunsmith who he would just take it to.

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Old 01-11-2012, 11:04 PM   #49
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Well I had a 4 inch Raptor in my hand on Monday. It is one pretty gun, there's no disputing that. I dry fired it few times and to be honest, wasn't overly impressed with the trigger.

The guy only had about a 100 rounds through it, so it could still ease up some. He hadn't had any issues so far. He knows about Kimber's c.s. reputation so if he does have problems, we both know a 1911 gunsmith who he would just take it to.
The Raptor is one purty 'lil dude. I'm sooooo glad I've not had any serious issues with my Kimbers.

As far as the trigger, the other pistols I have are all striker fired duty type weapons so the Kim feels like buttah in comparison.
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Old 01-12-2012, 04:42 PM   #50
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How are the EAA guns? I've never seen one in person...always kinda thought their commercials were cheesy (like most gun commercials seem to be)...what's the price range on them?
ive had mine for about 10 yrs......probably 5-600 rds down the tube......0 jams....i have not put mine through the nato test and never would.....it shoots great and very accurate

mine was about 4 Ben Franklins......
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