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-   1911 Forum (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f57/)
-   -   Half Cock Question (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f57/half-cock-question-41576/)

Jesse17 04-21-2011 05:15 PM

Half Cock Question
 
I like the idea of carrying a 1911 cocked and locked, you've got the manual safety, plus the grip safety. My only concern is what if there is a mechanical brake, say in what ever part physically holds the hammer back?

Is this where the half cock comes into play? Am I correct in thinking that the hammer will be stopped by the half cock unless the trigger is in the rear position, in the case of such a failure?

c3shooter 04-21-2011 05:43 PM

The 1911A1 was DESIGNED to be carried cocked and locked, with a round under the hammer. I have around 50 years of carrying one, and have NEVER seen a 1911A1 suddenly decide the drop a cocked hammer without input from a person. Under those unlkely circumstances, the half cock notch SHOULD catch the hammer as it goes down.

Jesse17 04-21-2011 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c3shooter (Post 490904)
The 1911A1 was DESIGNED to be carried cocked and locked, with a round under the hammer. I have around 50 years of carrying one, and have NEVER seen a 1911A1 suddenly decide the drop a cocked hammer without input from a person. Under those unlkely circumstances, the half cock notch SHOULD catch the hammer as it goes down.

Thanks c3, that's what I thought I just wanted to make sure for my own piece of mind...and for those people who might think I'm nuts for carrying cocked and locked (if they are lucky enough to be allowed that knowlege which is limited to my wife, best friend (another gun nut who carrys) and you guys).

JonM 04-21-2011 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse17 (Post 490910)
Thanks c3, that's what I thought I just wanted to make sure for my own piece of mind...and for those people who might think I'm nuts for carrying cocked and locked (if they are lucky enough to be allowed that knowlege which is limited to my wife, best friend (another gun nut who carrys) and you guys).

the 1911 is safer carrying cocked round in the chamber safety OFF than carrying a glock and the same safety level as carrying an xd...

jeepcreep927 04-21-2011 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM (Post 490955)
the 1911 is safer carrying cocked round in the chamber safety OFF than carrying a glock and the same safety level as carrying an xd...

Slightly subjective. I have carried numerous Glock pistols in level 2 and 3 duty rigs, tactical rigs, U/C, of duty, etc. for over ten years. Strangely I haven't had one go bang without my direct input. I am sure with a 1911 the results would be the same.

One particular design is not inherently "safer" than another. I am not talking about a #6 rubber band used to hold back the hammer on a trigger-less zip gun. I mean within reason.

danf_fl 04-22-2011 08:28 AM

Use the method recommended for you firearm.

The biggest safety device involved is between the ears.

Yunus 04-22-2011 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesse17 (Post 490891)
I like the idea of carrying a 1911 cocked and locked, you've got the manual safety, plus the grip safety. My only concern is what if there is a mechanical brake, say in what ever part physically holds the hammer back?

Is this where the half cock comes into play? Am I correct in thinking that the hammer will be stopped by the half cock unless the trigger is in the rear position, in the case of such a failure?

Yes, from my limited understanding the half cock was simply to prevent someone who was cocking the gun but let it slip from having an AD. The gun slips into half cock mode. I'll have to double check but I got this info from my manual and it specifically said NEVER leave it in the half cock position as it was not safe.

I double checked. Here is an excerpt about it from the Taurus 1911 manual.
Quote:

INTERCEPT NOTCH (ALSO KNOWN AS HALF-COCK NOTCH)
The intercept notch is a notch on the hammer which prevents it from
falling fully forward in the event of primary sear notch failure. It also
prevents the hammer from hitting the firing pin should your finger slip
from the slide or hammer while cocking the pistol, provided the hammer
has been moved past the stop. The intercept notch is not a manual
safety! Do not under any circumstances use the intercept notch as a
“half-cock” position. This misuse can result in damage to the sear,
and/or unintentional discharge of the pistol. The intercept notch position
is an automatically engaging safety feature and should never be
engaged by hand

falseharmonix 04-22-2011 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM (Post 490955)
the 1911 is safer carrying cocked round in the chamber safety OFF than carrying a glock and the same safety level as carrying an xd...

As I don't have a ccw or a 1911, I don't want to ignite another Glock vs 1911 war. But I am curious how you come upon this conclusion. In my experience with any firearm, if I don't put my booger-hook on the trigger, it doesn't go bang. I have never had an AD. It seems to me that the glock trigger safety is not at all a safety, but that if cocked with a round in the chamber it is no less condition 1 than a 1911 with a round in the chamber, safety off (assuming there is no grip safety).

c3shooter 04-22-2011 03:02 PM

Awright youse guys- let's not be going off half cocked now..........:p

JonM 04-22-2011 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falseharmonix (Post 491385)
As I don't have a ccw or a 1911, I don't want to ignite another Glock vs 1911 war. But I am curious how you come upon this conclusion. In my experience with any firearm, if I don't put my booger-hook on the trigger, it doesn't go bang. I have never had an AD. It seems to me that the glock trigger safety is not at all a safety, but that if cocked with a round in the chamber it is no less condition 1 than a 1911 with a round in the chamber, safety off (assuming there is no grip safety).

if your booger hook slips by accident or forgetfulness inside the trigger guard of a glock you can get an ND. same thing with a xd or a 1911 with safety off there is a grip safety that has a chance of preventing the ND. the presence of a safety device that is not part of the trigger makes them theoretically safer in the world of "what if". 1911s and the XDs do have grip safeties and thats the difference that makes them a little safer in my book.

revolvers and da/sa pistols have long heavy trigger pull to help with the inadvertant finger in the trigger guard draw SA, DA/SA, revolvers that have external hammers all tend to have a half cock notch as a safety mechanism. striker pistols do not have such things

if folks hve a different opinion thats fine. im just stating mine. ive got other reasons to not own a glock than that. i dont care if people like them or buy em by the bucketfull, it doesnt matter to me. im just saying if your gonna what if, you have to look at it from a non-hater non-fanboy pov at the reality of each platform.

if your concern is inherent safety the safest gun to carry loaded is a revolver with an empty chamber under the hammer.


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