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Old 02-10-2013, 07:25 PM   #11
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All I know is I absolutely love mine. It's super accurate and just feels good. Look and look. You'll find one. Patience is required for this sort of thing. If you have patience. Lol.

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It is the one in the middle. And I love it. That is all.
Damn son you have great taste in handguns!

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Old 02-10-2013, 07:40 PM   #12
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Cane, does the arched msh change how the gun points enough to make point of impact shift? I've wanted one on mine forever, but I'm afraid it won't point the same anymore. Comments?
The first 45 I shot was my Dad's Ithaca M1911A1 which had the arched MSH.



I've put one on most of my 1911 because I like the way it forces your hand up closer to the barrel center-line.

When I first got my Defender I couldn't hit paper with it! The gun had FTF and FTE issues and my cognitive dissonance was screaming what a dumb purchase!!!

My third trip to the range was my turning point. It was a slow day and the Range Officer was hanging around me escaping from the boredom. After watching my frustration he offered this question, "First mouse gun?" My hubris wanted to tell him to go clean up brass but my intellect said help. I said, “Yep.”

He said, “You can’t grip that mini-me like a Government model. Your grip is too low.

He went on to show me how to grip the Defender by jamming my thumb-web into the beavertail first and then let my fingers find their natural placement. He went on to tell me my grip looked good but he bet me he could make it better.

I figured at this point any assistance will help and said, “How?” He explained that he bet my strong side hand was doing all the gripping and that would pull the muzzle off target when the trigger is pulled. Have your weak side hand provide about 60% of the grip pressure.

I ran the remainder of my ammo on target, NO FTF/FTEs, me in amazement and the Range Officer with a big grin on his face!

What’s that cute story have to do with a MSH? OK…OK I’m getting to it!

My hands were obviously too big for this 3” 1911. In search for a fix I thought the addition of a magwell would add to the length of the Defender frame. (I know, I know, I should’ve bought the LW Commander!!)

I called Smith & Alexander in Texas and got Allen Smith. I explained the above ‘cute’ story and WOW! Talking to Allen is like taking a pistolsmith class! He said my problem was more a MSH issue than a short grip. He ask me if my shots were mostly low and to the weak side? ...."Yep."

He told me that when the Army came back to Browning for changes to the M1911 one of the complaints was the Calvary, shooting mostly from horseback, were always hitting under their targets and wanted something done with the sights. JMB being the true genius that he was knew the sights were fine and came up with the arched MSH to force the shooter’s hand up higher on the grip. This simple change moves the muzzle higher in a natural point shooting stance and increased accuracy. The arched housing is one of the few changes made to the design and the result was the M1911A1 introduced in 1924. (Thank God they didn’t change the name to 1924!)

The reason we see few arched MSH's on today’s production 1911’s is due to the small horseback shooting demographic.

I share this experience with you (and others) to show how an unknown problem was fixed by observant and helpful fellow gun owner.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:00 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by canebrake

The first 45 I shot was my Dad's Ithaca M1911A1 which had the arched MSH.

I've put one on most of my 1911 because I like the way it forces your hand up closer to the barrel center-line.

When I first got my Defender I couldn't hit paper with it! The gun had FTF and FTE issues and my cognitive dissonance was screaming what a dumb purchase!!!

My third trip to the range was my turning point. It was a slow day and the Range Officer was hanging around me escaping from the boredom. After watching my frustration he offered this question, "First mouse gun?" My hubris wanted to tell him to go clean up brass but my intellect said help. I said, “Yep.”

He said, “You can’t grip that mini-me like a Government model. Your grip is too low.

He went on to show me how to grip the Defender by jamming my thumb-web into the beavertail first and then let my fingers find their natural placement. He went on to tell me my grip looked good but he bet me he could make it better.

I figured at this point any assistance will help and said, “How?” He explained that he bet my strong side hand was doing all the gripping and that would pull the muzzle off target when the trigger is pulled. Have your weak side hand provide about 60% of the grip pressure.

I ran the remainder of my ammo on target, NO FTF/FTEs, me in amazement and the Range Officer with a big grin on his face!

What’s that cute story have to do with a MSH? OK…OK I’m getting to it!

My hands were obviously too big for this 3” 1911. In search for a fix I thought the addition of a magwell would add to the length of the Defender frame. (I know, I know, I should’ve bought the LW Commander!!)

I called Smith & Alexander in Texas and got Allen Smith. I explained the above ‘cute’ story and WOW! Talking to Allen is like taking a pistolsmith class! He said my problem was more a MSH issue than a short grip. He ask me if my shots were mostly low and to the weak side? ...."Yep."

He told me that when the Army came back to Browning for changes to the M1911 one of the complaints was the Calvary, shooting mostly from horseback, were always hitting under their targets and wanted something done with the sights. JMB being the true genius that he was knew the sights were fine and came up with the arched MSH to force the shooter’s hand up higher on the grip. This simple change moves the muzzle higher in a natural point shooting stance and increased accuracy. The arched housing is one of the few changes made to the design and the result was the M1911A1 introduced in 1924. (Thank God they didn’t change the name to 1924!)

The reason we see few arched MSH's on today’s production 1911’s is due to the small horseback shooting demographic.

I share this experience with you (and others) to show how an unknown problem was fixed by observant and helpful fellow gun owner.
Thanks for the info. I'll look into one to try. And I've noticed your pics of your 1911's as well. I haven't seen one I wouldn't want yet.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:08 AM   #14
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Thanks for the info. I'll look into one to try. And I've noticed your pics of your 1911's as well. I haven't seen one I wouldn't want yet.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:34 AM   #15
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Cane- are those VZ grips on your Colt? if so, what profile did you get to use with your S & A magwell?

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Old 02-20-2013, 01:22 AM   #16
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Cane- are those VZ grips on your Colt? if so, what profile did you get to use with your S & A magwell?
They look like vz operator II's in hyena brown. Flat bottom profile no bevel. Gov't size.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:38 PM   #17
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Can someone with some patience explain to me what you all are talking about? I am fairly new to 1911s and haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. What is so special about this gun? Please don't scold me cane, I am just asking...

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Old 02-20-2013, 05:44 PM   #18
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They "claim" Colts are the best - grenade tossed, fire in the hole!!


Joking, joking

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Old 02-20-2013, 05:59 PM   #19
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Can someone with some patience explain to me what you all are talking about? I am fairly new to 1911s and haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. What is so special about this gun? Please don't scold me cane, I am just asking...
This gun is Wiley Clapp's (blogger, writer, etc. use bing and check his specs) brain child. It is everything he wants/needs a carry pistol to be. And if you're around 1911's long enough for the specs on this gun to mean something, he just about hit the nail on the head. it's a perfect carry piece out of the box in my opinion. It's also a TALO (bing again) exclusive, which makes it rarer and harder to find than regular production guns.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:33 AM   #20
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The wait is over! It looks right at home doesn't it?





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