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Old 08-04-2011, 03:23 PM   #31
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I have a question regarding the "best" 1911. Certainly, there are probably 1911s out there that are not good maybe prone to jams etc... However, I find that most if not all of my firearms are able to outshoot me (meaning they are more accurate than I am able to aim). Certainly, a 1911 that is constructed properly to return the barrel to the same spot everytime, and doesn't jam, would be considered the best? If so, there are MANY 1911s that are the "best" yes?

Or maybe I am missing something? Like skill? lol
The original question was from a self admited newbie and it shows. BTW nothing wrong with that, we all have to learn somehow. BUT, it's like someone that just learned how to drive asking what's the best car out there.

The follow up question needs to be "best" for WHAT? Then ask how much are you willing to spend for BEST? Best can be defined in a miriad of ways. A Ferrari is easily recognized as one of the "best" cars in the world but if you have to drive down a powdery sand beach there might be better options...

Also there is the law of diminishing returns. Usually a $500 pistol is way better than a $200 pistol but then again is a $2,000 pistol "way" better than a $500 gun? Is a $5,000 pistol $3,000 better than a #2,000 gun? As the price goes up the margins of "better" get much thinner and in some cases they have nothing to do with performance and more to do with "desirability" which is rather subjective matter.

Some guy just blew $80,000 on a Factory Commemorative one-of-a-kind Colt for the 100th Anniversary. Is that a BETTER gun than a Les Baer or Wilson Combat?
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:05 PM   #32
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Well - you can count me in the newbie category. So - some expert shooters would be able to tell the difference between weapons I suppose as they are quite more proficient at aiming?
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:31 PM   #33
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Ok I understand that but armed with your very limited knowledge you went ahead and put in three posts on this thread full of "information" "facts" and opinions. You are certainly entitled to your opinions. But stating information and facts in an open forum opens them to scrutiny and debate so I would just try to do my homework before throwing information out there.

Please don't take me wrong. I'm not trying to beat you up but I also do not like when a person asks a question and gets a lot of bad info in return. Please continue your quest for knowledge on this subject. I like your enthusiasm, you just need to temper it with some research and experience.
Take care!
I can accept that, and will do. It has happened that I have been to the range and seen some person there with a really nice high end 1911 and I was not impressed with the way they shot. I forgot something my dad told me when I was younger, it's not the gun it's the shooter. My thoughts were this person has 2 or 3 grand pistol, he should be out shooting me. At the time I bought my SA loaded for less than $700.00 NIB, and my target looked much better. I will not judge the guns next time I'm shooting, it's about the operator. I apologize. I still love my MC Operator, and someday soon a TRP will sit in my safe.
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Old 08-04-2011, 06:43 PM   #34
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I can accept that, and will do. It has happened that I have been to the range and seen some person there with a really nice high end 1911 and I was not impressed with the way they shot. I forgot something my dad told me when I was younger, it's not the gun it's the shooter. My thoughts were this person has 2 or 3 grand pistol, he should be out shooting me. At the time I bought my SA loaded for less than $700.00 NIB, and my target looked much better. I will not judge the guns next time I'm shooting, it's about the operator. I apologize. I still love my MC Operator, and someday soon a TRP will sit in my safe.
I like SA's a lot and for what it's worth my brother who is a pro does too. He thinks the TRP is probably the ultimate fighting 1911 so you are in some good company. BTW I think the SA Loaded is probably one of the best values in quality pistols out there today.

The problem with 1911's is that most folks will not leave them alone. Just because the guy is shooting a Kimber it does not mean that it has not been subjected to kitchen gunsmithing. So almost every time I see a problematic 1911 my first question is, did you change out any parts on it and second question is what mags are you running in it? Usually between these two questions I find the problem.

And finally as you said even cheap guns out there can outshoot their owners so you can't make any assumptions about the gun capabilities based on the user. As Jeff Cooper once said, "Buying a gun does not make you a shooter any more than buying a gutar makes you a mucisian."
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:44 PM   #35
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IMO, "newbie" or not, all of our personal experience is to some

degree limited, and our opinions,though accurate to our

experiences, also somewhat limited.

I've seen guys bashing Kimbers in the threads.

Obviously, THEY had a bad experience with Kimbers.

What's the "best" is just so arbitrary and personal.

Otherwise we'd all be buying the same brand...
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:41 PM   #36
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.......................
Not even close and I'm a huge Colt "Koolaid Drinker" and currently own two of their 1911s (Series 70 government and a Series 80 Commander). The question should be "What's the best 1911 for my budget". Colt makes a fine 1911 in the $600-$1,000 price range. Beyond that you have Wilson, Nighthawk, Les Bear, and so on including full blown customs built to your specs by a reputable smith. I have a Rock Island Armory the matches the accuracy and reliability of both Colts does that make it best? Not in the fit & finish department but for the $300 I paid for it it's a lot of pistol for the money.

"Best" is always a subjective term with firearms. Better to ask "What is best for my budget and needs". Is a slightly tighter group at 15 yards worth an extra $2,000? If the answer is yes move up to a custom or Nighthawk, etc. If the answer is no then stick with Colt, Norinco, or even RIA.

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Old 08-05-2011, 06:31 AM   #37
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I gotta go with the old Colt's, here is mine made bet 1918 & 1919 The slide is a bit newer

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Old 08-05-2011, 06:40 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wambli

I like SA's a lot and for what it's worth my brother who is a pro does too. He thinks the TRP is probably the ultimate fighting 1911 so you are in some good company. BTW I think the SA Loaded is probably one of the best values in quality pistols out there today.

The problem with 1911's is that most folks will not leave them alone. Just because the guy is shooting a Kimber it does not mean that it has not been subjected to kitchen gunsmithing. So almost every time I see a problematic 1911 my first question is, did you change out any parts on it and second question is what mags are you running in it? Usually between these two questions I find the problem.

And finally as you said even cheap guns out there can outshoot their owners so you can't make any assumptions about the gun capabilities based on the user. As Jeff Cooper once said, "Buying a gun does not make you a shooter any more than buying a gutar makes you a mucisian."
I agree 100%. I am an open minded shooter and always will be. I am willing to give just about any gun a shot, except those that I have seen mess up over and over again. In the past I have judged the gun unfairly because the operator was a poser and name brand whore. I blame that on myself because I got away from what my old man taught me. I got to try it myself before I can make a fair judgement call. My friends have seen the way I shoot and get the guns I have cause I shot them well and they figured it's the gun too. I turned a few colt and beretta fans into Glock fans like that, but I later explained to them you make shot not the gun. I quit doing that cause one them bought a keltek and it broke after 10 rounds and broke again after he got it back from keltek.

I bought a Kimber once because of it's reputation, a pro carry 2. The gun was unreliable, because it FTF and FTE. I tried different mag and ammo thinking that was the problem, but it still malfunctioned. I took it to the shop where I bought it and they sent it to their gun smith, he must have sucked at his job. Up to that point I had put 500 rounds threw it to break it in and that is what the dealer told me to do when I told him what problem I was having. After the gun smith returned it a week later, I shot 100 rounds threw it and it still jammed at least 3 out of each mag, and that was after feed ramp polish and chamber throating and what ever else he did. I got my money back and bought a sig 220 carry and had $200 left over. It was explained to me by JonM that 2 series Kimber are not as good as older Kimbers. Since then I've been hard on Kimbers. I've had 3 Colts and none of them ever gave 1 problem and I still have my Colt CCO, I love it. As for SA, in my book they are the best. I've never shot an Ed B, Wilson Combat, STI, or briley int, but I would like to. I'm sure they are great weapons, but again I have judged them because I was not impressed with the way the operator performed with them.

One of my coworkers only shoots high end gun but carries a Glock at work. I've seen this qualify with Ed Bs and I lost faith in the guns, then a while later I saw him quality with the Glock and realized it wasn't the gun. He's just spoiled rich boy that can afford nice guns and can't shoot.
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:10 PM   #39
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I agree 100%. I am an open minded shooter and always will be. I am willing to give just about any gun a shot, except those that I have seen mess up over and over again. In the past I have judged the gun unfairly because the operator was a poser and name brand whore. I blame that on myself because I got away from what my old man taught me. I got to try it myself before I can make a fair judgement call. My friends have seen the way I shoot and get the guns I have cause I shot them well and they figured it's the gun too. I turned a few colt and beretta fans into Glock fans like that, but I later explained to them you make shot not the gun. I quit doing that cause one them bought a keltek and it broke after 10 rounds and broke again after he got it back from keltek.

I bought a Kimber once because of it's reputation, a pro carry 2. The gun was unreliable, because it FTF and FTE. I tried different mag and ammo thinking that was the problem, but it still malfunctioned. I took it to the shop where I bought it and they sent it to their gun smith, he must have sucked at his job. Up to that point I had put 500 rounds threw it to break it in and that is what the dealer told me to do when I told him what problem I was having. After the gun smith returned it a week later, I shot 100 rounds threw it and it still jammed at least 3 out of each mag, and that was after feed ramp polish and chamber throating and what ever else he did. I got my money back and bought a sig 220 carry and had $200 left over. It was explained to me by JonM that 2 series Kimber are not as good as older Kimbers. Since then I've been hard on Kimbers. I've had 3 Colts and none of them ever gave 1 problem and I still have my Colt CCO, I love it. As for SA, in my book they are the best. I've never shot an Ed B, Wilson Combat, STI, or briley int, but I would like to. I'm sure they are great weapons, but again I have judged them because I was not impressed with the way the operator performed with them.

One of my coworkers only shoots high end gun but carries a Glock at work. I've seen this qualify with Ed Bs and I lost faith in the guns, then a while later I saw him quality with the Glock and realized it wasn't the gun. He's just spoiled rich boy that can afford nice guns and can't shoot.

Plenty of those around but like you said that is not an equipment fault. In the hands of a skilled shooter a premiere gun like a Wilson Combat, Ed Brown or Les Baer is a thing of beauty. The test target that came with my Wilson is a one hole ragged group and the slide is so well fit that it feels like it's on ball bearings. I also currently have two Kimbers that have been flawless for many years. Kimber did go through a period a few years back of some QC issues, mostly with their failed attempt at external extractors, and at the same time there was a guy in the repair department that was a dick and pissed a lot of people off. Those issues have been corrected and I know a LOT of very happy Kimber II series owners. Think about it, at about a $1,000 a copy how long do you think Kimber would be in business if their guns generally sucked.

Your Kimber should have not gone to some back room gunsmith for work. It should have gone to the factory for warranty service and I'm sure they would have made it right or replaced it for you. Every manufacturer (except the premiere makers) puts out a dog at times. It's how they react to it that counts.
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Old 08-05-2011, 01:31 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Wambli

Plenty of those around but like you said that is not an equipment fault. In the hands of a skilled shooter a premiere gun like a Wilson Combat, Ed Brown or Les Baer is a thing of beauty. The test target that came with my Wilson is a one hole ragged group and the slide is so well fit that it feels like it's on ball bearings. I also currently have two Kimbers that have been flawless for many years. Kimber did go through a period a few years back of some QC issues, mostly with their failed attempt at external extractors, and at the same time there was a guy in the repair department that was a dick and pissed a lot of people off. Those issues have been corrected and I know a LOT of very happy Kimber II series owners. Think about it, at about a $1,000 a copy how long do you think Kimber would be in business if their guns generally sucked.

Your Kimber should have not gone to some back room gunsmith for work. It should have gone to the factory for warranty service and I'm sure they would have made it right or replaced it for you. Every manufacturer (except the premiere makers) puts out a dog at times. It's how they react to it that counts.
Well I have boycotted that establishment in San Antonio and encourage all my friends and fellow gun lovers to shop at other places since then. I might give Kimber another try later but I got my eyes set on a SA TRP or TRP Operator, or I might just try a Wilson Combat that I can afford or a custom Colt. I've never dealt with Colt or SA customer service or repair shop cause I never had to. My best friend on the other hand has dealt with Colts on one occasion. He bought a user Colt King Cobra and the timing on the cylinder was off, they fixed it for free, refinished it, and did a trigger job at no charge. He got it back better than when he first bought, and not it's almost as nice as python.

For now I am completely happy with my SA MC Operator, it's my first factory tuned 1911 and it has me in awe. It is a bit on the heavy side, but it is all steel and has a rail so I got what I wanted.

I'm gonna send my loaded a1 to SA gunsmith to do carry bevel and deburr the the action. I wanna start carrying it off duty and I'd like the action to be a little smoother, besides that the gun is fine as is.

What are your thought on bull barrel 1911. The Kimber I had, had one, but that one was a bad memory of problems. I have heard great things about the SA champion and thought about getting a champion operator. It's light weight, bull barrel, and a rail (just like the way the rail looks on it).
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