[joshfireart]

Originally Posted by Dutch1911

I couldn't disagree with you more!!! Lasers are a crutch true and simple. If it's too dark for you to see your sights, it's too dark for you to see your target and know if your target is a target or not.

There is no replacement for front sight focus!!! No laser in the world will help you if you're looking over your gun to find your little red dot. If you're on target on trigger your focus should be on your front sight. Even if it's only a flash sight picture.

Training... training... training...
Front Sight... Front Sight... Front Sight.

Dutch1911
1/*

i like the word training there is no substitute, and a laser is just another tool. I think all shooters should learn to shoot open sites before any scope. when this is done scopes, lasers and red dots are great tools

[Gojubrian]

Originally Posted by Dutch1911

I couldn't disagree with you more!!! Lasers are a crutch true and simple. If it's too dark for you to see your sights, it's too dark for you to see your target and know if your target is a target or not.

There is no replacement for front sight focus!!! No laser in the world will help you if you're looking over your gun to find your little red dot. If you're on target on trigger your focus should be on your front sight. Even if it's only a flash sight picture.

Training... training... training...
Front Sight... Front Sight... Front Sight.

Dutch1911
1/*

That's just it. You don't have to look over your gun, you don't have to have your gun ligned up at all.

Lasers aren't a crutch no more than the point and shoot camp says sights are a crutch. Lasers are a tool that can be useful. If you don't like them,don't get them, but don't thumb your nose at folks who find them useful.

Let's see what Rob Pincus has to say about them.

YouTube - LASERLYTE LASER SIGHTS BY PERSONALSECURITYZONE.COM

[jackg]

Originally Posted by Dutch1911

I couldn't disagree with you more!!! Lasers are a crutch true and simple. If it's too dark for you to see your sights, it's too dark for you to see your target and know if your target is a target or not.

There is no replacement for front sight focus!!! No laser in the world will help you if you're looking over your gun to find your little red dot. If you're on target on trigger your focus should be on your front sight. Even if it's only a flash sight picture.

Training... training... training...
Front Sight... Front Sight... Front Sight.

Dutch1911
1/*

We all have our own opinions about lasers, we just have different opinions and that's OK. However, I really don't understand your comment about the laser being a "crutch". First of all your statement assumes it's a fact that lasers are a crutch and that's just plain wrong.
Your next assumption is that it's totally dark and you can't see your sights or your target. Sorry, but that's not right either.
When I pick up my laser assisted gun all I have to do is see the red dot on the aggressor. I wouldn't assume what other people think about but, I think a good majority would agree with me. What else do you need?
I do agree with your promotion of training but, for myself I'm just an ordinary citizen who wants to defend himself and his family & home from an aggressor's actions. I don't think I'll ever need to know how to duck and weave myself through empty buildings.
It's obvious to me that you are military or LE and you're all gung ho about what you're doing but don't you think that John Q Public is the majority?

[SHAMUSPI]

Perhaps only a few, if any, have ever had a situation develop where deadly force in a forced response was necessary. As a former soldier in our Army, I have been there (and done that). I was forced to take human life more than once; first in Vietnam (69 -70), and later, in the US Nuclear Surety Program in Europe (1970's) again.

In a combat (military or civilian) situation, all training and perceived mind sets virtually disappear. There is only the panic response of "do something." Of everything I have read about proper stances, they are all garbage in a real life situation. It boils down to point shoot.

Sights meant nothing to me or others in a firefight; most certainly not to the few of us in Europe's darkest areas.

A laser would have been a fantasitic help in those times. A sighting of a few milliseconds vs several seconds of acquiring sights could, maybe, have saved a few of my fellow soldiers.

I praise lasers and their developers. Those in harm's way today, love them.

[danf_fl]

We are not bound to what type of sighting apparatus is on our firearms.
"Cheat" as much as you can afford.

[Dutch1911]

Originally Posted by Gojubrian

That's just it. You don't have to look over your gun, you don't have to have your gun ligned up at all.

Lasers aren't a crutch no more than the point and shoot camp says sights are a crutch. Lasers are a tool that can be useful. If you don't like them,don't get them, but don't thumb your nose at folks who find them useful.

Let's see what Rob Pincus has to say about them.

YouTube - LASERLYTE LASER SIGHTS BY PERSONALSECURITYZONE.COM

Quite honestly you couldn't be more wrong.
I'm certainly not "thumbing" my nose (what ever that means).
I would like to draw your attention to your statement here... "you don't have to have your gun lined up at all"

What kind of discipline is this??? I think you would have one hell of a time explaining this mess in court! Good luck!

Dutch1911
1/*

[joshfireart]

[QUOTE=Dutch1911;323295]Quite honestly you couldn't be more wrong.
I'm certainly not "thumbing" my nose (what ever that means).
I would like to draw your attention to your statement here... "you don't have to have your gun lined up at all"

What kind of discipline is this??? I think you would have one hell of a time explaining this mess in court! Good luck!

Dutch1911
1/*[/QUOTE

let me guess your not going out to buy a laser this weekend

[jackg]

Originally Posted by Dutch1911

I would like to draw your attention to your statement here... "you don't have to have your gun lined up at all"

What kind of discipline is this??? I think you would have one hell of a time explaining this mess in court! Good luck!

Dutch1911
1/*

Speaking for myself I can say that if I'm in "that" position the very last thing I'm going to worry about is going to court. As someone else said "cheat as much as you can afford." BTW, there's no need to use foul language here, it's supposed to be a family oriented site.

[Flint Rock]

I'm not a laser fan. Guns and batteries don't mix to me. I guess I'm old school and it comes more natural to look for the sights rather than look for a dot on the target. I do have and use red dot sights on long guns, but that's not a laser.
Sights work for me, and "if it aint broke.........", well you get the idea. Now I know some people who swear by lasers, and that's fine. You have to figure out what works for you. It doesn't matter what I/we like. This is about you.

[Byrdguy]

I have a Crimson Pro Carry, and I pulled the laser grips off in favor of some wrap around Hogues. I like the feel of the gun better now. I wish it had the night sights, but I think I'll just put some paint on the front sight for some contrast. To each his own.