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Old 01-20-2014, 04:34 PM   #21
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Hey not to be a azzhat but can we keep posts to the subject matter. If you have issues with another member here please pm them, start your own thread about them or report them to a admin.

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Old 01-20-2014, 04:59 PM   #22
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If I was in an area where I expected to encounter a mountain lion or a bear of any kind a 12 ga slug is the minimum I would carry. I wouldn't even consider a pistol for defense against dangerous animals unless you can hit a flying skeet with your pistol. Most dangerous animals can run over 30 mph. Then you are going to use a 45 acp for animals that everyone says you should have a 44 mag at the minimum? I wouldn't consider a 45 acp for anything larger than a rattlesnake.

Animals do not have a highly developed central nervous system like humans, they don't feel pain in the same way. You need a weapon with hydrostatic shock to stop an animal, unless you don't mind a mountain lion chewing on you for 15 minutes while it bleeds to death. Pistols of any kind do not have enough energy to create hydrostatic shock. Pistols are meant for stopping two legged predators, not animals.

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Old 01-20-2014, 05:04 PM   #23
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If I was in an area where I expected to encounter a mountain lion or a bear of any kind a 12 ga slug is the minimum I would carry. I wouldn't even consider a pistol for defense against dangerous animals unless you can hit a flying skeet with your pistol. Most dangerous animals can run over 30 mph. Then you are going to use a 45 acp for animals that everyone says you should have a 44 mag at the minimum? I wouldn't consider a 45 acp for anything larger than a rattlesnake.

Animals do not have a highly developed central nervous system like humans, they don't feel pain in the same way. You need a weapon with hydrostatic shock to stop an animal, unless you don't mind a mountain lion chewing on you for 15 minutes while it bleeds to death. Pistols of any kind do not have enough energy to create hydrostatic shock. Pistols are meant for stopping two legged predators, not animals.
I CAN hit a flying skeet with a pistol! so is it alright for me?
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:07 PM   #24
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If I was in an area where I expected to encounter a mountain lion or a bear of any kind a 12 ga slug is the minimum I would carry. I wouldn't even consider a pistol for defense against dangerous animals unless you can hit a flying skeet with your pistol. Most dangerous animals can run over 30 mph. Then you are going to use a 45 acp for animals that everyone says you should have a 44 mag at the minimum? I wouldn't consider a 45 acp for anything larger than a rattlesnake.

Animals do not have a highly developed central nervous system like humans, they don't feel pain in the same way. You need a weapon with hydrostatic shock to stop an animal, unless you don't mind a mountain lion chewing on you for 15 minutes while it bleeds to death. Pistols of any kind do not have enough energy to create hydrostatic shock. Pistols are meant for stopping two legged predators, not animals.
I'm curious what qualifies you as an expert on bear defense and the biology of animals central nervous system?
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Old 01-20-2014, 05:31 PM   #25
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I am no expert!
But do I carry a 1911 when hiking/camping? Yes.
And depending on where I am at, and what I am doing, either .45ACP or 10mm.

(and a .22lr for the fun of it.)

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Old 01-20-2014, 07:26 PM   #26
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Personally as someone who has hunted Oregon (a western state) for 44 years now. I would be much more inclined to carry a .357 mag wheel gun as an anti bear gun in Black bear country as the much higher velocity would have a better chance of getting past the mat of hair. As to cats in 44 years of hunting I have seen 2 bob cats and only seen cougar tracks a few times. So the chances of having one think I was something to eat would not effect my pistol choices.

As to 2 legged vermin. Well anything from .380 up works in an alley in down town Portland so I'm pretty sure it would work on the Crest trail as well.

And in all cases of two legged vermin a shotgun with #4 to #00 buck is way more effective then any pistol.

IMHO

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Old 01-20-2014, 07:37 PM   #27
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Personally as someone who has hunted Oregon (a western state) for 44 years now. I would be much more inclined to carry a .357 mag wheel gun as an anti bear gun in Black bear country as the much higher velocity would have a better chance of getting past the mat of hair. As to cats in 44 years of hunting I have seen 2 bob cats and only seen cougar tracks a few times. So the chances of having one think I was something to eat would not effect my pistol choices.

As to 2 legged vermin. Well anything from .380 up works in an alley in down town Portland so I'm pretty sure it would work on the Crest trail as well.

And in all cases of two legged vermin a shotgun with #4 to #00 buck is way more effective then any pistol.

IMHO
Its not a bad train of thoughts, the 357mag is potent medicine...I still think the 45 will get the same penetration...light and fast = heavy and slow in some cases
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:01 PM   #28
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I'm curious what qualifies you as an expert on bear defense and the biology of animals central nervous system?
All you have to do is watch freaking TV. I have seen an Alaskan state trooper shoot a black bear in the head twice with a 12 ga slug. The freaking bear fell at his feet. How is a 45 acp even going to slow a mentally ill black bear?

Have you ever heard of a ballistic gelatin test? A 45 acp is not even in the same ballpark with a 357 loaded with a 125 gr SP, much less a 180 gr ruger only 357 mag bear load.

I have worked as a veterinary assistant for years. I am a licensed horse trainer. Racing commissions do not hand out trainers licenses to any idiot that can saddle a horse. I have two years of training as a equine massage therapist. You have to have a lot of training and a vet to sponsor you to even get in the class. I used to train the horses owned by the veterinary school at Louisiana state university. One has to be very sharp on animal anatomy to get the job.

Any more questions?
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:15 PM   #29
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All you have to do is watch freaking TV. I have seen an Alaskan state trooper shoot a black bear in the head twice with a 12 ga slug. The freaking bear fell at his feet. How is a 45 acp even going to slow a mentally ill black bear?

Have you ever heard of a ballistic gelatin test? A 45 acp is not even in the same ballpark with a 357 loaded with a 125 gr SP, much less a 180 gr ruger only 357 mag bear load.

I have worked as a veterinary assistant for years. I am a licensed horse trainer. Racing commissions do not hand out trainers licenses to any idiot that can saddle a horse. I have two years of training as a equine massage therapist. You have to have a lot of training and a vet to sponsor you to even get in the class. I used to train the horses owned by the veterinary school at Louisiana state university. One has to be very sharp on animal anatomy to get the job.

Any more questions?
well we are all lucky that a bear is not made of ballistic gelatin cause they would taste like crap I imagine. I disagree with you, the 45 is just as good if not better than the 357 for this purpose.

I grew up on a horse farm, we trained cutting horses, barrel horses, and roping horses when my dad wasn't racing Quarter horses. So we have something in common

I was supposed to be a jockey but I had a growth spurt
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:51 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by John_Deer View Post
All you have to do is watch freaking TV. I have seen an Alaskan state trooper shoot a black bear in the head twice with a 12 ga slug. The freaking bear fell at his feet. How is a 45 acp even going to slow a mentally ill black bear?

Have you ever heard of a ballistic gelatin test? A 45 acp is not even in the same ballpark with a 357 loaded with a 125 gr SP, much less a 180 gr ruger only 357 mag bear load.

I have worked as a veterinary assistant for years. I am a licensed horse trainer. Racing commissions do not hand out trainers licenses to any idiot that can saddle a horse. I have two years of training as a equine massage therapist. You have to have a lot of training and a vet to sponsor you to even get in the class. I used to train the horses owned by the veterinary school at Louisiana state university. One has to be very sharp on animal anatomy to get the job.

Any more questions?
JD you seem to be an expert on all subjects in this forum, I solute you!
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