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sight question for newbie


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Old 02-10-2010, 01:44 PM   #11
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Or don't use sights at all? Try instinctive shooting some time.
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Old 02-10-2010, 02:59 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by afi1 View Post
Or don't use sights at all? Try instinctive shooting some time.
+1 on that one. I don't use the sights at short ranges.
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:31 PM   #13
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Or don't use sights at all? Try instinctive shooting some time.
This video shows what can happen when non-sighted shooting meets sighted shooting :


Yes,we use the sights. It is possible, with experience, to do very good close-range work without them. It is also possible to ride well without a saddle and to swim well with one arm. It maybe very good fun, too. But if your life depends upon your very best performance, as it may in defensive pistolcraft, you will use your strongest technique.
-Jeff Cooper-
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:55 PM   #14
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This video shows what can happen when non-sighted shooting meets sighted shooting :
If your reference of point shooting is what you see "2:51" in the video, then you are right. Nevertheless pointshooting has evolved to what you can see here
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:24 PM   #15
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MB44 :
I watched the clip you cited. The shooter appears to hold the gun up at eye level. Even if you were to remove the sights ( a la D.R. Middlebrooks ), he could still be using Jim Cirillo's method of referencing how the gun should look from behind or...

...he could be using the top of the slide almost like a sight or...

...he could be looking out over the gun and index it that way or...

...StressFire Sight Index...

...he could be cheating and using Flash Sight Picture ( per the Modern Technique ), which is what I would recommend.

This vid is not a good test of point shooting anyway. In real gunfights, Cooper's students and Jimmy Cirillo proved the superiority of sighted shooting.

Point shooting still has its place---in exhibition displays by men with the talents of Thell Reid and Bill Jordon.

So do I dare to say that the Israelis are using inferior methods ? Yes, I do.

" By Flash Sight Picture, you are verifying an alinement already achieved : Is it right ? Yes, it's right...Go ! "
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Last edited by Rentacop; 02-11-2010 at 02:26 PM. Reason: punctuation
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:55 PM   #16
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MB44 :
I watched the clip you cited. The shooter appears to hold the gun up at eye level. Even if you were to remove the sights ( a la D.R. Middlebrooks ), he could still be using Jim Cirillo's method of referencing how the gun should look from behind or...

...he could be using the top of the slide almost like a sight or...

...he could be looking out over the gun and index it that way or...

...StressFire Sight Index...

...he could be cheating and using Flash Sight Picture ( per the Modern Technique ), which is what I would recommend.

This vid is not a good test of point shooting anyway. In real gunfights, Cooper's students and Jimmy Cirillo proved the superiority of sighted shooting.

Point shooting still has its place---in exhibition displays by men with the talents of Thell Reid and Bill Jordon.

So do I dare to say that the Israelis are using inferior methods ? Yes, I do.

" By Flash Sight Picture, you are verifying an alinement already achieved : Is it right ? Yes, it's right...Go ! "
- Jeff Cooper-
Rentacop,

I familiar with what the gentlemen in the video is doing, as I have been trained in the same method. Possibly he is using some of the methods which you indicate, and possibly I am too, but I cannot link what I do, to what you are listing as everything that I learned was taught in Spanish, thus other non-English terms are used. Nevertheless, I could imagine that the techniques you mention are superior, given the fact that the foundation for teaching ICPS was intended to be a uniform way to teach the masses. I have trained in this and all I can say is that from the time that I realize a threat approaching, to that I draw from concealment, rack the slide, instinctively point towards the object and place a fairly tight double tap on a moving target, it takes me about 1,5-1,8 seconds. Obviously I do not use the sights, but my pairs are in my opinion tight enough to be effective. Possibly I could improve on this, but I feel that I at this point am sufficiently trained to confront most threats in my environment. I am by no means in law enforcement, nor have I ever served in the military, so my knowledge is purely theoretical, and the closest I can come to any real situation is my IPSC matches, where I use the same technique with success. Hence, I do feel that the before mentioned does have its place.
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:06 PM   #17
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Point shooting still has its place---in exhibition displays by men with the talents of Thell Reid and Bill Jordon.

So do I dare to say that the Israelis are using inferior methods ? Yes, I do.
Once again you are stating things that are your opinion and attempting to make them appear factual based on who knows what. Please explain your realm of expertise and training that supports your claims of the above statements. Please include actual training, not what you read in books or watch on video or YouTube.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:10 PM   #18
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I agree with that guy lol.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:12 PM   #19
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Hey Canebrake, good info but you forgot to mention that any gun without night sights is totally worthless...
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:30 PM   #20
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Hmmm,.. with RentaCop banned, this thread is done,... ain't it ?
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