[smallbore]

I'm shopping around for a .45 and would like some objective feedback on the G21 SF. Your input is greatly appreciated.

[tgc99gt]

great gun looks sexy has always fired everytime I pulled the trigger as for grip it feels awesome in my hands I feel in complete control of it don't really have any cons for the gun

[smallbore]

Thanks for the feedback tgc.

[ET1]

I've owned a Glock 21sf for about a year now. I originally bought the standard 21 at a gun show, but picked up the sf at another booth. I immediately went back to the booth where I bought the gun and asked to trade it in on the sf. The guy looked at me funny and could not believe I wanted the sf over the original 21. He traded me straight up and simply changed out the serial #'s on the invoice and Fed paper work.

This gun is totally reliable & has been the most accurate hand gun I own (I own 2 Taurus, 1 S&W, & 2 Glocks). My next door neighbor was a handgun specialist in the military. He owns a 1911 that the military built just for him to use in matches. When we go shooting at the range he always wants to shoot the Glock and loves the accuracy. Plus the grip fits perfectly in his hand and mine as well. I did add a Pachmyr slip on grip. Anyway he told me last night that he was going to buy one at the next gun show. That's all I need to know.

[cpttango30]

He traded me straight up and simply changed out the serial #'s on the invoice and Fed paper work.

That is not something I would want to be bragging about as it is highly illegal. You just can't go changing things on a 4473 after you get it ran. If you trade in one gun on another a new 4473 needs to be filled out and resubmitted even if it is 5 minutes apart.

Your friend is a DOUCHE that is all I can say. The military doesn't giveaway guns.

[NGIB]

Originally Posted by ET1

I've owned a Glock 21sf for about a year now. I originally bought the standard 21 at a gun show, but picked up the sf at another booth. I immediately went back to the booth where I bought the gun and asked to trade it in on the sf. The guy looked at me funny and could not believe I wanted the sf over the original 21. He traded me straight up and simply changed out the serial #'s on the invoice and Fed paper work.

This gun is totally reliable & has been the most accurate hand gun I own (I own 2 Taurus, 1 S&W, & 2 Glocks). My next door neighbor was a handgun specialist in the military. He owns a 1911 that the military built just for him to use in matches. When we go shooting at the range he always wants to shoot the Glock and loves the accuracy. Plus the grip fits perfectly in his hand and mine as well. I did add a Pachmyr slip on grip. Anyway he told me last night that he was going to buy one at the next gun show. That's all I need to know.

So a dealer violates federal law for you and your neighbor is the only person I've ever heard of that the military built a match gun for. Yup, this is extremely credible to me...

[M14sRock]

I know a couple of guys who were lucky enough to be asked to shoot on the USMC rifle team back in the '80's. They were shooting armorer built M14's. All had personal rifles built by the rifle team armorers if they provided an M1A receiver. The rest was provided and work completed by the armorers.

ET does not say the military gave his friend a 1911, it says the military built a 1911 for his friend. Subtle difference.

And when CA still used DROS (Dealer Record Of Sale) books for pistol registration, I saw plenty of "DROS'" get changed or voided (same day sales before the paperwork was sent to the DOJ) if the buyer decided they liked one pistol better than the one they had already done the DROS on. The 4473 did not get completed until the gun was picked up back then, so it would not have been an issue.

Can we cut the new guy some slack?

[cpttango30]

How is changing serial number on the FED FORM not illegal? I would not be dealing with an FFL that would do that stupid crap weather it was legal or now. That is just asking for a bunch of problems down the road. How many other things does he "CHANGE" of the 4473? Will he change someone's name? address, what?

He owns a 1911 that the military built just for him to use in matches

That to me says one thing. He has a gun that was owned by the military. Sorry dude stop making yourself look stupid the military DOESN'T give away guns.

[M14sRock]

Originally Posted by cpttango30

How is changing serial number on the FED FORM not illegal? I would not be dealing with an FFL that would do that stupid crap weather it was legal or now. That is just asking for a bunch of problems down the road. How many other things does he "CHANGE" of the 4473? Will he change someone's name? address, what?



That to me says one thing. He has a gun that was owned by the military. Sorry dude stop making yourself look stupid the military DOESN'T give away guns.

The Feds are concerned with tracking of guns. They like to see the paperwork and tracking account for every gun that comes into, and leaves the store inventory. When I was in the gun biz ATF did not allow white out on any forms, but were fine with items neatly crossed out and re-written in the A&D book. Every FFL must keep an Acquisition and Disposition (A&D) log book, along with the 4473's which get numbered to the A&D book inputs.

I have seen stores log out a gun on one 4473, and log it back in (to the A&D book) a few hours later, only to sell it and log it out again on another 4473. I have seen people write the wrong info on a 4473, and watched as the 4473 was shredded and a new one from the packet used to replace it with the correct info (while the customer was present) and log number.

It is easy for someone (non-employee) who does not handle the logbooks and 4473's as an employee of a gun store to see something like that and think they saw "paperwork being changed".

And, once again, the post by ET did not say a "gun owned by the military" it said, "He owns a 1911 that the military built just for him to use in matches". I know a lot of people that own guns built by military armorers. Those guns were never owned by the military, and the military has no claim to them.

[ET1]

Originally Posted by cpttango30

That is not something I would want to be bragging about as it is highly illegal. You just can't go changing things on a 4473 after you get it ran. If you trade in one gun on another a new 4473 needs to be filled out and resubmitted even if it is 5 minutes apart.

Your friend is a DOUCHE that is all I can say. The military doesn't giveaway guns.

Did I say that the Military GAVE him the gun? Could he not have purchased it? Do you know what transpired with my neighbor 40 years ago? You don't have any information here and you call somebody a douche? Really?

Look, as far as the paperwork for the swapout, the dealer said that he could simply change out the numbers since nothing had been sent in yet. They don't send in paperwork each time they sell a gun at the gun shows. There weren't any calls made. I showed my CCW permit and they filled out the paperwork. Nothing was reported at that time. In Georgia if you already have your ccw permit then they don't have to call the fed's since part of the permit is checking your background. If it had been turned in already he would not have changed it. This guy is an up-front dealer and would not have broken the law.