[Rentacop]

Point by point -
1)" First safety is between the ears. " is just word play. I can play that game too ! " The gun is only a tool - you are the weapon. " etc.

2) Leather holsters collect moisture and one might want to think twice before storing a blued 1911 in its holster long term. The tennifer-treated Glock slide is a different animal and Glocks are so ugly a little rust wouldn't matter to their appearance anyway LOL.

3) By saying empty chamber works for the Israelis, I implied that that is how they train. As I indicated, Condition One is best, though.

4) AD vs. ND ? Word games again. Maybe the reason there are so many Glock "NDs" is because there are so many Glocks in use. There may be more accidents with Fords than Ferraris too.

5) What does hunting have to do with this ? Hunting can be stressful when ' buck fever ' sets in, and people forget to release safeties ; gunfighting is much more stressful, so people might forget to thumb off the safety on a 1911. It happens in FOF to some people. Now is that clear enough ?!

6) Knife fighting ? FYI Sykes and Fairbairn did not only fight with knives. Their book, Shooting to Live, is in the public domain and was posted to the Web.

7) Once you release the safety on a 1911, you are handling a cocked SA with maybe a 3.5 pound trigger that has a very short travel. How's that differ from Glocks "safe-action" ? I won't state the obvious again...

8) Spittenfire : If you can't shoot a Glock well, I'm betting that the Glock trigger is inducing you to flinch. You must forget the trigger, focus on sight alignment correction and squeeze right through the shot. Don't give up- you can do it.
Glocks are not dangerous. They are unforgiving of human error. You need not fear carrying one in a secure holster. To field strip, you must dry snap it using a sand bucket or other safe backstop. You should avoid unnecessary loading/unloading/manipulating and never use live ammo to practice clearing jams etc.
Glocks are very dangerous to bad guys because they go bang reliably and rapidly and never run out of ammo.

1911s ? I've owned two. I've had jams, and failures to feed Hydrashok. They've been great for everything except what a pistol is really for.

James Yeager is no fan of the 1911 and he has all of Tactical Response's range experience to go on. Yeager likes the full-size Kimbers but those are his one 1911 exception.

[Dillinger]

Originally Posted by Rentacop

Point by point -
1)" First safety is between the ears. " is just word play. I can play that game too ! " The gun is only a tool - you are the weapon. " etc.

And again, proving nothing, we are talking about using your head for something other than to keep your ears apart with. If you think you are safer believing otherwise, have at it, but please use the lane down at the other end of the range....

3) & 4) are for canbrake....

Originally Posted by Rentacop

4) AD vs. ND ? Word games again. Maybe the reason there are so many Glock "NDs" is because there are so many Glocks in use. There may be more accidents with Fords than Ferraris too.

That tears it, you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

Are you really trying to tell this forum that there are more Glocks out there, then there are 1911's?!?!?

You do realize that the 1911 has been issued, to active duty troops, for over 100 YEARS!!

I have 5 1911's myself, how many Glocks do you have?? Even if you issue one Glock to every member of the board, the people on this board that have 1911's will STILL outnumber them.

For every 1 Glock, I am betting there are more than a dozen, conservative numbers, 1911's out there inside the US Alone!!

Really?! More Glocks than 1911's?! What the hell were you thinking when you made THAT statement?!

Originally Posted by Rentacop

7) Once you release the safety on a 1911, you are handling a cocked SA with maybe a 3.5 pound trigger that has a very short travel. How's that differ from Glocks "safe-action" ? I won't state the obvious again...

It's called training. You see, at high center chest, as taught by Rob Pincus of this forum & I.C.E. Training, you recover the weapon AND use your thumb to engage the safety, which is currently not an option on your tactical plastic.

Originally Posted by Rentacop

Glocks are very dangerous to bad guys because they go bang reliably and rapidly and never run out of ammo.

- The same would be true of a knife or a ballbat....

Originally Posted by Rentacop

1911s ? I've owned two. I've had jams, and failures to feed Hydrashok. They've been great for everything except what a pistol is really for.

All the more for me!

Originally Posted by Rentacop

James Yeager is no fan of the 1911 and he has all of Tactical Response's range experience to go on. Yeager likes the full-size Kimbers but those are his one 1911 exception.

Are you F**KING kidding me?!?! That is the great source of your 1911 dislike!?

James Yaeger

The same former police officer who went to Iraq as a "specialist" and got his whole F**KING team killed, THEN proceeded to blame the entire experience ON THEM?!?!

You have now lost ALL CREDABILITY in this arguement. You are officially on the "Pay No Nevermind" list along with Spider.

James Yaeger..... Yeah, have him drive you to the store sometime and see how well THAT works out for you.....


JD

[Rentacop]

Dillinger-
In comparing the number of Glocks "in use" to 1911s, I was thinking of Glocks carried by cops and security guards and maybe by average citizens for defense. As I understand it, few police agencies and security companies issue or approve 1911s ( rightly or wrongly ).
1911s used on target ranges or kept in collections are not as likely to be involved in accidental-'SCUSE ME !-negligent discharges as are Glocks carried for protection.
1911s have, I'm told, been involved in many military accidents ( or 'negligents' or whatever ). Of course, I do not fault the 1911 for the fact that some soldier got the unloading sequence mixed up, chambered a round, and, ( without visually checking ) fired.
It is obvious that you are not taking this discussion entirely seriously, but James Yeager deserves to have his Iraq episode described accurately :
* He did NOT get his whole team killed. Three men were killed and all were hit in the initial machine gun attack, before Yeager could take any action. There is no way I can see how Yeager could be blamed for the deaths.
* I'll try to locate the reports on this old matter but in the meantime, let me tell you that these internet tirades against Yeager remind me of the old television show, " Branded ", in which Chuck Connors played a Civil War vet. No matter where he turned up, someone identified him as " that coward from Bitter Creek ".
Yeah. Yeager isn't Audie Murphy and Gabe Suarez had legal trouble. Those are handy facts when you can't argue with these men's knowlege and instructing ability.

[Rentacop]

From NY Times article :
Four days later, three other foreigners died in a machine-gun attack a mile closer to the airport. A survivor of that incident, James Yeager, a security contractor who was previously an undercover narcotics detective in Camden, Tenn., said in an account posted on the Internet that his security convoy was halted half a mile east of the airport by an American military unit dealing with the aftermath of a roadside bomb.

Mr. Yeager said he noticed a parked car that appeared to be an insurgent lookout - with an Iraqi inside talking on a cellphone - on a neighborhood road parallel to the expressway. In minutes, a white sport utility vehicle with tinted windows drove down the side road, made a U-turn, then lowered its windows. A volley of machine-gun fire killed three contractors, an American, a Canadian and an Australian. The S.U.V. fled.

Here's an Excerpt from the company's AAR :
Contact: As stated at approximately 1210 hrs, the APOLLO team was engaged with heavy automatic weapons fire which originated from north of their position along the slip road bordering Route IRISH. All three vehicles sustained damage and casualties during the initial burst of gun fire. It is assessed that the team was engaged by two or more PKM belt fed GPMG firing armor piercing ammunition. The armored sedan suffered hits which would have normally defeated standard ball ammunition. During the initial burst of gun fire the APOLLO team suffered three casualties which consisted of Jay Hunt, Chris Ahmlemen, and Steff Surette. Two of the operators Jay Hunt and Steff Surette were wounded in the hip/groin area and suffered sever trauma to the femoral artery while Chris Ahmlemen was shot in the hip and head with the head wound killing him outright.

Upon the initiation of contact the lead vehicle driven by James Yeager attempted to drive out of the kill zone and was unsuccessful as Yeager had taken the car out of drive placing it in neutral and setting the emergency hand brake which prevented him from driving out of the kill zone during the opening stages of the contact. Upon failing to drive "off the X" Yeager, Mark Collen and Steff Surette evacuated the vehicle. Steff Surette at this point was already wounded and was located beside the vehicle in the prone though he was attempting to remain in the fight. James Yeager fell to the rear of the vehicle in order to return fire and engage enemy forces.
LINK : http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/showthread.php?t=311672 ( scroll to AARs )

Video :

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