How good are Glocks really? - Page 15
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:36 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fathead00

The GLOCK forum is worse. Me and ZG were banned from there. If you go into a thread with GLOCK versus any other gun manufacturer you will find out how nice the GLOCK people are. That's why we found this gun forum and are much more happier here.
Ditto.....
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:52 PM   #142
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I am not a Glock fan because of a G22 that i bought used had a major malfunction. I also don't buy the "Well it must be the best gun because the majority of all law enforcement use them" The main reason for the majority of LE having Glocks is because Glock submitted the lowest bid prices. My local department purchased Glocks based on total bid package price. All major gun brand names submitted quotes/bids packages and met or exceeded required gun specifications, but it all came down to the lowest price.

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Old 11-11-2012, 02:58 PM   #143
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Like any other manufacturer out there, you will have a wide variety of opinions. A company as large as Glock could not possibly put out as many weapons as they have without having a few substandard items get out of the factory. Overall I believe that they make a very good gun and although I don't own one, I am not so against them that I will not buy one in the future.

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Old 11-11-2012, 03:00 PM   #144
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Quote:
I HAVE NEVER SEEN A FIREARM DISCHARGE WITHOUT THE TRIGGER BEING PULLED.
Then, perhaps, you haven't seen all possible problems with guns. I have had a discharge from a Thompson Center Contender with no finger on the trigger. A round was put in the chamber and when the gun was closed it discharged. There was a problem with the cocking / trigger mechanism that was repeatable about every 5 times the gun was opened / closed.

I know the discharge was accidental, as after it happened we tested the gun carefully with another 25 rounds so that when the gun was taken to the gunsmith the exact nature of the problem could be accurately described. The gun repeated the problem regulary at 5-7 round intervals and the trigger pull changed in takeup with each subsequent cocking / closing until it would discharge on its own.

Any and all mechanical devices can have problems. The fact that you personally haven't seen something happen is not statistically significant as you can't possibly see all of the invidual guns used throughout the world under every single variable condition.

I dislike these kind of statements as the person making it is attempting to translate his personal experience into a ubiquitous statement of fact.

As for Glocks. They are fine pistols that are no more special in performance than at least 5 or more other semi-auto designs.

If Glocks were the zenith of gun design that could not be surpassed for use in any way under all conditions - you wouldn't have special operations units choosing to shoot 1911's, and other service branches choosing SIGs and HKs for their use. As for Glocks being used world-wide by armed forces - CZ's are carried by more police and armed forces world-wide than Glock - if that is supposed to influence you by "proving" the gun's worth through military usage.
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:22 PM   #145
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That's interesting as my deer gun "for the last 10 years" has been my Thompson Center 30.06...Hmmm, it never go boom boom by itself either?

Sure, any mechanical device can malfunction but in my considerable experience I can say that is an EXTREEMLY unlikely event with any factory produced firearm in it's original unaltered condition.

Every AD claim I've taken the time to investigate "by following the lawsuit results" were determined to be either operator error OR an improperly altered
Gun.

...and LEO's have a CAREER at stake, they are expected to know how to operate that piece of equipment despite what is IMHO substandard training in many departments so I take any LEO AD claim as a CYA ND event.

Tack

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckhorn_cortez View Post
Then, perhaps, you haven't seen all possible problems with guns. I have had a discharge from a Thompson Center Contender with no finger on the trigger. A round was put in the chamber and when the gun was closed it discharged. There was a problem with the cocking / trigger mechanism that was repeatable about every 5 times the gun was opened / closed.

I know the discharge was accidental, as after it happened we tested the gun carefully with another 25 rounds so that when the gun was taken to the gunsmith the exact nature of the problem could be accurately described. The gun repeated the problem regulary at 5-7 round intervals and the trigger pull changed in takeup with each subsequent cocking / closing until it would discharge on its own.

Any and all mechanical devices can have problems. The fact that you personally haven't seen something happen is not statistically significant as you can't possibly see all of the invidual guns used throughout the world under every single variable condition.

I dislike these kind of statements as the person making it is attempting to translate his personal experience into a ubiquitous statement of fact.

As for Glocks. They are fine pistols that are no more special in performance than at least 5 or more other semi-auto designs.

If Glocks were the zenith of gun design that could not be surpassed for use in any way under all conditions - you wouldn't have special operations units choosing to shoot 1911's, and other service branches choosing SIGs and HKs for their use. As for Glocks being used world-wide by armed forces - CZ's are carried by more police and armed forces world-wide than Glock - if that is supposed to influence you by "proving" the gun's worth through military usage.
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:58 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
That's interesting as my deer gun "for the last 10 years" has been my Thompson Center 30.06...Hmmm, it never go boom boom by itself either?

Sure, any mechanical device can malfunction but in my considerable experience I can say that is an EXTREEMLY unlikely event with any factory produced firearm in it's original unaltered condition.

Every AD claim I've taken the time to investigate "by following the lawsuit results" were determined to be either operator error OR an improperly altered
Gun.

...and LEO's have a CAREER at stake, they are expected to know how to operate that piece of equipment despite what is IMHO substandard training in many departments so I take any LEO AD claim as a CYA ND event.

Tack
Then I guess you're just the end-all expert on everything; and unless you personally experience or see a problem - it can't exist.

The Thompson Center in question was unaltered. Was taken to a gunsmith who tested it and verified the problem. He contacted Thompson who asked for the gun to be shipped to them.

The gun was returned from Thompson about 5 weeks later with only a service form in the box stating "R&R trigger." The whole thing cost about $25 in 1983 for shipping/handling and gunsmith's time.

I know you didn't see it or verify the circumstances - so, I probably just imagined the whole thing...
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:02 PM   #147
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PP

Yes, you should have mentioned that they were dropped 3' onto a hard surface.

Also...two officers dropping guns on the same day at the same range is more inidicative of POOR training that a problem with the equipment.

Though I've put several thousand round through Glock pistols, I've never owned one, am not a GLOCK armoror, and do not know if a drop from a certain height onto a hard surface "could" do this?

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken but racking the slide on the older Gen Glocks put the firing pin spring under "partial" pressure, IE not fully cocked. Releasing the trigger safety and pulling the trigger through the remaining tension fully cocks the spring and releases the sear discharging the weapon.

So, could a drop on the muzzle from 3' release the sear without the trigger safety being deactivated? And would the partially cocked spring plus intertia generated from the drop produce enough force to slam the pin forward into the cartridge primer discharging the weapon?

Honestly, I don't know, perhaps a GLOCK armored could weigh in on this.

What I do know is that an person incapable of handling a sidearm in a low stress environment like a range without droping, or allowing it to fall from a holster is not a person who is going to handle a real world situation any better.

My comments were not meant to call anyone a liar but a large benefit of this forum is to help other shooters make the right decision for there personal firearm selection. For this reason I feel that claims of defective products should be backed up with findings and data to support the claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PigPilot View Post
Golly, gee whiz, Tac, senior member, with all your vast experience, not to mention you can afford to send 10k rounds downrange per year, I just don't understand why I'm not taking the last part of your final sentence as gospel from an expert. A less sensitive individual would think you're calling me a liar. Maybe I should have mentioned the accidental discharges were investigated by the department armorers and the witnesses -PLURAL- all said the officers did not have the pistol in hand. Both discharged when they fell out of the issued holsters, about 3 feet onto a hard surface. All 3 pistols were the 'old' 9mm, whatever "Gen" that would have been. Maybe we simply got a few bad ones of the thousands of good ones that were made. Any company that makes thousands of (insert your choice of item here) will likely have a problem occasionally. I wasn't bashing Glocks per se; in my 1st sentence, I said I liked the Glock for the in-hand feel and its accuracy. I was simply relating facts about 3 malfunctions that I know to be true. OK, there it is. You and your roll-eyes emoticon can jump on me again.
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:08 PM   #148
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Well...there was rampant Magic Mushroom Abuse back in 83!

Quote:
Originally Posted by buckhorn_cortez View Post
Then I guess you're just the end-all expert on everything; and unless you personally experience or see a problem - it can't exist.

The Thompson Center in question was unaltered. Was taken to a gunsmith who tested it and verified the problem. He contacted Thompson who asked for the gun to be shipped to them.

The gun was returned from Thompson about 5 weeks later with only a service form in the box stating "R&R trigger." The whole thing cost about $25 in 1983 for shipping/handling and gunsmith's time.

I know you didn't see it or verify the circumstances - so, I probably just imagined the whole thing...
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:11 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
PP

Yes, you should have mentioned that they were dropped 3' onto a hard surface.

Also...two officers dropping guns on the same day at the same range is more inidicative of POOR training that a problem with the equipment.

Though I've put several thousand round through Glock pistols, I've never owned one, am not a GLOCK armoror, and do not know if a drop from a certain height onto a hard surface "could" do this?

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken but racking the slide on the older Gen Glocks put the firing pin spring under "partial" pressure, IE not fully cocked. Releasing the trigger safety and pulling the trigger through the remaining tension fully cocks the spring and releases the sear discharging the weapon.

So, could a drop on the muzzle from 3' release the sear without the trigger safety being deactivated? And would the partially cocked spring plus intertia generated from the drop produce enough force to slam the pin forward into the cartridge primer discharging the weapon?

Honestly, I don't know, perhaps a GLOCK armored could weigh in on this.

What I do know is that an person incapable of handling a sidearm in a low stress environment like a range without droping, or allowing it to fall from a holster is not a person who is going to handle a real world situation any better.

My comments were not meant to call anyone a liar but a large benefit of this forum is to help other shooters make the right decision for there personal firearm selection. For this reason I feel that claims of defective products should be backed up with findings and data to support the claim.
And so since you're not really qualified (Glock armorer) you still feel it's your job to police a forum though multiple posts so that the thread is directed toward the outcome you deem satisfactory even though you can't speak as an expert on the pistol?

-noted....
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:21 PM   #150
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A dropped Glock from three feet or even ten shouldn't go off because the striker is not fully cocked and the block would prevent forward travel unless the trigger was pulled.

Glocks are good guns. Are they the "be-all, end-all"? Nope. Are they crap? Nope.

They are probably misunderstood by both fans and haters. Can't please everybody. Other manufacturers have picked up the model and made enhancements and refinements as well as adding options that some shooters prefer. It's s great thing about a free market place.

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