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Old 09-20-2009, 12:05 AM   #11
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When you truly understand the engineering behind how the safeties on the Glock work, you will not have any fears of "accidental" discharge. "Negligent" discharges happen with every firearm, but they are due to the idiot (my emphasis/Beau) behind the trigger.
Hm-m-m>there are many, many multiple cases of police officers (admittedly not always 'gunnies') and others who have had ADs/NDs (whichever term/acronym you like) with Glocks-this cannot be denied. Are you saying that not even ONCE in your life have you had a weapon discharge when you didn't intend it to? If so, I will take that statement with a very healthy grain of salt. Even if you say such a thing, how much of your good fortune was skill, and how much just being lucky? Even you couldn't say, for sure.

I don't think they would be very appreciative of having an 'idiot' label applied to them, due to this. I never advocate (or practice) leaving a finger on the trigger at any time, post-firing. I do honestly admit to being somewhat "dangerous" (not just with guns) when I am very fatigued. I have always been this way, so evidently this is just part of my nature, which I have to be aware of, and guard against. I think this is common to most (really, all) people, and wouldn't be quick to slap a 'dumbass' label on someone doing a 'Barney Fife' in such cases.

As previously posted, I do not think Glock has a flawed design, I just like the extra security of a locked weapon, which doesn't negate any of Cooper's rules, or common sense gun-handling. The incidents of ADs which come to mind which (more-than-likely) would have been prevented by such a device involve re-holstering, either in a duty rig, or some sort of C.C.W. setup, like an inside-the-waistband. I knew a fellow in the armored car industry (who was very far from an idiot) who had this happen with a D.A. .357 Smith, when an item on his belt got somehow snagged (during qualifying/re-holstering) between the trigger guard and trigger, causing him to 'donate' part of his thigh meat to a local hospital. Fortunately, he lived to serve another day.

Another 2 pennies-
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Old 09-20-2009, 12:41 AM   #12
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Default Glock trigger safety?

Cases in point: (thanks, Rentacop)

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A guy about to repair a customer's Glock somehow had his hand ahead of the muzzle as he attempted to field strip a loaded Glock. He must have been holding the disassembly tabs. He pulled the trigger to move it rearward and shot himself through the hand. Similar things happened to two guys who posted on The Gun Zone long ago.

A guard ADed a Glock in a rest room stall, explaining to his employer that the gun slipped out of its holster after he removed it, something snagged the trigger, and it fired.

A guard shot himself (grazing leg wound) during range qualification. Maybe his finger was on the trigger as he re-holstered and was pushed by the holster.
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Old 09-20-2009, 04:07 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by themanbeau View Post
Cases in point: (thanks, Rentacop)
Somehow "fieldstripping a loaded Glock" that leads to shooting oneself is now the problem of the Glock? I think YOU just made my point. If every gun is treated as if it is loaded at all times, these things would not happen.

I met a cop several years ago who told me his story. He went into the mens room to take a dump, and hung his cocked and locked 1911 on the coat hook on the back of the door. When he was finished he reached up, grabbed his 1911 and while removing it from the hook the trigger hit the hook (thumb safety engaged). The gun went off 3 times and fired 3 rounds up into a desk on the floor above. He was stunned when this happened, as he had no idea his thumb safety had been improperly fitted and was unsafe. Nobody was at the desk at the time, his department disapproved the 1911 as a duty or backup weapon after this.

Now, was that a problem with the safety, or his gun handling? I think both.

And to answer the previous question, I have never had a gun go off "accidentally". And none of the professional gun people I know have had it happen either. Why? Because we are careful, and treat every gun as if it is loaded all the time.

And, police departments have been plagued with unskilled officers "accidentally" firing their weapons for as long as they have carried them. Not all LEOs are gun people.

Keep your finger off the Glock trigger, and the gun won't go off. Simple.

And if you rely one some magical, manual safety to keep you from accidentally firing your weapon, you are destined to do it. Manual safeties wear out frequently, so learn to rely on the one between your ears to keep your finger off the trigger.
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Old 09-20-2009, 11:34 AM   #14
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Are you saying that not even ONCE in your life have you had a weapon discharge when you didn't intend it to?
I've never had a weapon discharge unless I intended it to do so. 4 years in the USMC and an extensive history with firearms after that and to this day.
Now I'm thinking that maybe humanity as a whole wasn't ready for Glocks. I'd say over half of humanity are not adept enough to drive a vehicle satisfactorily either.
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Old 09-20-2009, 12:56 PM   #15
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And if you rely one some magical, manual safety to keep you from accidentally firing your weapon, you are destined to do it. Manual safeties wear out frequently, so learn to rely on the one between your ears to keep your finger off the trigger.
I never said or (even intimated) that! M14-that's a very irritating habit-to put words in people's mouths all the time. I DID say-Cooper's rules (and common sense) still apply. I DID say-I just like the ADDED security of a locked weapon, for cases like the re-holstering without a finger on the trigger issue, cited; which was a revolver, in that one instance.

I have never had an AD since I learned (or at least began applying) good gun handling habits, either. Even in gun stores (right after watching the counter clerk check the chamber) I still treat it as a loaded weapon, as rule #1 states.

The incidents I put in quotes actually came from Rentacop (as I said) so that can be taken up with him. I wasn't saying that nothing stupid was done; I was re-citing these to illustrate that these were cases of Glock-involved incidents, nothing more.
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Old 09-20-2009, 01:29 PM   #16
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Ram Rod:

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I've never had a weapon discharge unless I intended it to do so. 4 years in the USMC and an extensive history with firearms after that and to this day.
Good! That's proof that Cooper's rules really DO work, when properly and consistently applied. My AD was when I was only 19, prior to joining the military, and being very wet behind the ears. The details are a bit too embarrassing to go into, but that was my LAST one, and will stay that way.

There's an old maxim that says the only (true) fool is one who can't learn from his past mistakes. So, since no one was injured, (in one sense), I'm glad it happened to me-nothing like an incident such as that to prevent over-confidence.

Which brings me to the point I possibly didn't make completely clear when I mentioned Mr. Fife's name previously:

I appreciate everyone's service who served (or is serving) in the military or police here, but the attitude that, "I am this, or I did that, so therefore I CANNOT have an AD/NG" (even though unspoken) makes me more than a bit nervous to hear. As said, age, fatigue, or even distraction can have a great effect on anyone, no matter how 'bad' they are, or were, with a weapon.

To use a non-gun example: I rode motorcycles for more than 20 years...and we say in it that there are only 2 kinds of riders: Those who have fallen off, and those who WILL (one day) fall off. Now, I'm sure someone will weigh in and say, "I've been riding for 50 years, and..." Great! Fantastic! But I am talking about the masses of riders (and 'common' gun owners) not the exceptional (or exceptionally lucky) ones.

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Now I'm thinking that maybe humanity as a whole wasn't ready for Glocks. I'd say over half of humanity are not adept enough to drive a vehicle satisfactorily either.
There's no way I would (personally) recommend buying a Glock to someone who was brand-new to guns. If you do-fine-but I want people new to our industry/sport to have good (largely meaning "safe") experiences, as I'm sure everyone else on this board does. It takes a while for someone who lacks a police or military background to get these practices down, just as we were once all novices. I know (particularly among the ladies) the idea of even holding a gun makes (most of them) apprehensive, because not only is it obvious, but they say so. It doesn't help them to hear/think that one must be some sort of "super-human" military android to know how to carry and utilize a gun safely. Let's show them the way, minus the machismo.

Thanks, guys-
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Old 09-20-2009, 03:34 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by M14sRock View Post


Keep your finger off the Glock trigger, and the gun won't go off. Simple.

And if you rely one some magical, manual safety to keep you from accidentally firing your weapon, you are destined to do it. Manual safeties wear out frequently, so learn to rely on the one between your ears to keep your finger off the trigger.
Exactly. The more experienced we are, the more we have to resist complacency. Firearms are just like shop tools... you get complacent, it has nothing to do with external safeties—you will get injured! Finger off the trigger and watch the muzzle. Safeties fail, you shouldn't....
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Old 09-20-2009, 03:50 PM   #18
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The more (emphasis' are added/Beau) experienced we are, the more we have to resist complacency. Firearms are just like shop tools... you get complacent
Amen! Good re-make of my point about the 'can't happen to me' mindset.

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it has nothing to do with external safeties
Uh-I think if you went back and asked the 'victims' (yes, some were dumb, but not all) if it (having a safety engaged) would have made a difference, their answer(s) would contradict this. My co-worker with the .357 Smith (revolver) was doing everything 'right' when it happened to him-pretty darn rare, but still happens.

Plus, you guys who keep pounding me with this 'Glock don't (sic) need it' line haven't even addressed the question Ayoob brings up....the gun snatch!

2 more pennies-
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:16 PM   #19
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I fail to see the big deal of whether or not themanbeau puts a manual safety on his Glock.

If he wants one, then he's welcome to do it (it's his gun after all). I say good luck to him, and I hope he posts a pic of his results.

I think the sliderlock safety would work well on a Glock. Having that safety won't change the manual of arms too much, and it looks like a drop in component (which is always a plus).

I would say to try it out, and let us know. With minimal practice you'll be able to manipulate it with ease.

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Old 09-20-2009, 05:32 PM   #20
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I fail to see the big deal of whether or not themanbeau puts a manual safety on his Glock. If he wants one, then he's welcome to do it (it's his gun after all). I say good luck to him, and I hope he posts a pic of his results.
Thank you, Sgt.

Good point-that was the original question (issue) of this thread, until it got highjacked onto some rabbit trails!

But the trails were fun!!-

Thank you, too; 'rabbitmen'. :-P
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