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Old 09-01-2010, 12:21 PM   #121
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I would rather just have a battle rifle like an M14 (M1A w/e... if only I had the money for a full auto M14).

I still have nightmares from the crappy M16 I had to fire in basic. It jammed every 2 or three rounds. It was the most irritating thing ever. But that is due to that rifle being old and poorly maintained.

Wasn't the reason they went to a platform like the M16 was because the auto M14 was so uncontrolable?
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Old 09-01-2010, 12:30 PM   #122
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Wasn't the reason they went to a platform like the M16 was because the auto M14 was so uncontrolable?
Oh yeah as far as fully automatic fire in a practical situation the m16 is much easier to control (I'm just guessing... they didn't let me fire the m16 fully auto in basic). But I just want a fully automatic M14 for the cool factor. I would probably go to the range one time and empty a magazine and then from then on just shoot it in semi-auto from then on. But the practical reason why I would want an M14 (M1A) is because the effective range is much better with the 7.62 NATO vs the 5.56 NATO. That gives me a little more capability for when I get to be a better shot and I choose to shoot at targets further away... I don't have to buy a whole new rifle because my effective range is so low (in comparison to the M16).

Just thinking ahead you know. I don't have either rifle and I can't shoot either rifle well (yet). But they are both expensive investments... I just like what the M1A has to offer more than the AR or AK platforms (further range).
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Old 09-01-2010, 01:40 PM   #123
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Oh yeah as far as fully automatic fire in a practical situation the m16 is much easier to control (I'm just guessing... they didn't let me fire the m16 fully auto in basic). But I just want a fully automatic M14 for the cool factor. I would probably go to the range one time and empty a magazine and then from then on just shoot it in semi-auto from then on. But the practical reason why I would want an M14 (M1A) is because the effective range is much better with the 7.62 NATO vs the 5.56 NATO. That gives me a little more capability for when I get to be a better shot and I choose to shoot at targets further away... I don't have to buy a whole new rifle because my effective range is so low (in comparison to the M16).

Just thinking ahead you know. I don't have either rifle and I can't shoot either rifle well (yet). But they are both expensive investments... I just like what the M1A has to offer more than the AR or AK platforms (further range).

i mag I gotta ask. what branch are you in. Im navy and we have some crappy m16 but I have put a few thousand rounds down range with them and had very few jams(5 at most).

also did you shoot alot before you went to basic? some people might find it easier to shoot the m-16 because of the lighter recoil. me personally shooting a m-16 has little more recoil then a 22 mag. but a 7.62 has quite alot more recoil and can make some people afraid of it effectivly making them not as good of a shot with it.

and who says m-16/ar-15's have to be expensive i have seen some for as little as 600. as far as m-14 you might be able to get a used one that cheap i dont know since i havent started shopping for mine yet.

Not trying to stear you away from a M-14 but its definatly more expensive to shoot a 7.62 vs a 5.56. try shooting someone elses ar/m16 before you swear them off.
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Old 09-01-2010, 01:57 PM   #124
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i mag I gotta ask. what branch are you in. Im navy and we have some crappy m16 but I have put a few thousand rounds down range with them and had very few jams(5 at most).

also did you shoot alot before you went to basic? some people might find it easier to shoot the m-16 because of the lighter recoil. me personally shooting a m-16 has little more recoil then a 22 mag. but a 7.62 has quite alot more recoil and can make some people afraid of it effectivly making them not as good of a shot with it.

and who says m-16/ar-15's have to be expensive i have seen some for as little as 600. as far as m-14 you might be able to get a used one that cheap i dont know since i havent started shopping for mine yet.

Not trying to stear you away from a M-14 but its definatly more expensive to shoot a 7.62 vs a 5.56. try shooting someone elses ar/m16 before you swear them off.
I'm in the Air Force. I'm not security forces or anything so it isn't even likely for me to even have a weapon issued to me. I just like guns and I feel like a dirt bag considering my best friend is in the Marines and he is a riflemen first. So I kinda just want to actually be able to shoot a gun well unlike many people I know in the Air Force.

Oh and just to be clear... the M16 I fired was probably one of the first ones made. It was museum worthy. I know M16s are plenty reliable if cared for. But we did a poor job of cleaning those rifles due to being rushed through everything in basic... so I would imagine that none of those particular rifles are well cared for. The ones we use for defending the base look to be in much better condition.

The only thing I shot before basic was my Colt Python. I'm not a good shot with that either due to being trigger shy. But one of my goals is to become competent with all of my guns. The price of ammunition and time is all that is in my way of becoming better.

Right. I agree. In basic I was amazed at how little recoil this "big, scary, black rifle" had (especially after shooting a Colt Python... I thought rifles were really scary). I'm sure that I will suck with either rifle until I practice with them. But if I practice with an M14 (M1A... or anything in .308) I will be able to make shots beyond the 300m effective range of any AR platform.

Yeah I noticed that about the prices. Basically you can get 5 AK rounds for a dollar, 4 5.56 rounds for a dollar, or 2 7.62 rounds for a dollar. That kinda sucks but my investment will be rewarded with a longer effective range. And, I can more than likely turn around and shoot an AR just fine. That is just the road I chose to take (well I haven't bought anything yet so I'm fine for now).

But as far as assault rifle platforms go I like the SCAR and the ACR (I'm a lefty so that's why). Unfortunately those guys cost more than the M1A that I want from Springfield. So it doesn't look like I will buy an assault rifle anytime soon.

Well... now that I think about it I like the Arsenal converted AKs. The SGL-21 looks to be a nice piece of work (you know... with all of the part numbers matching and all lol).
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Old 09-01-2010, 03:16 PM   #125
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I'm in the Air Force. I'm not security forces or anything so it isn't even likely for me to even have a weapon issued to me. I just like guns and I feel like a dirt bag considering my best friend is in the Marines and he is a riflemen first. So I kinda just want to actually be able to shoot a gun well unlike many people I know in the Air Force.
I served 20 years in the Air Force and I shoot rather well. I maintained my Expert Marksman qualification throughout my career.

Now my question: If you feel like a dirt bag for being in the Air Force - why didn't you go into the Marines?
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Old 09-01-2010, 03:27 PM   #126
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I served 20 years in the Air Force and I shoot rather well. I maintained my Expert Marksman qualification throughout my career.

Now my question: If you feel like a dirt bag for being in the Air Force - why didn't you go into the Marines?
No I don't feel like a dirt bag because I'm in the Air Force. I feel like a dirt bag because I'm in the military and I'm a terrible shot.
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Old 09-01-2010, 03:36 PM   #127
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Hits beyond 300 meters will not be magicaly easier because you are shooting 7.62 instead of 5.56. I have seen plenty of real world use of the 5.56 and anyone with anykind of longrange training can and did make hits out to 600 meters with a 4x optic and M855 ball from a 14.5" M4. As an SDM shooting Mk262 it was even easier. We had M249 gunners that could smoke point targets at 600 meters with an Eotech at will. Then we had a guy in the sniper section that could not hit an E type target at 300 meters with the M107.

Learn how to shoot first. Then worry about caliber. Will 7.62 be better? sure will. Will 7.62 make you better. Only in the farthest fetched dreams.......
I don't think the rifle or the round will make me better.

I am pretty sure that I said that I sucked with both. And, I said that after I practiced and became proficient with the 7.62 it would be more worth my while because the round isn't as limiting (not saying it isn't enough... just don't want to have to buy another rifle down the road because my first one just doesn't have the range to allow me to grow that much past that point).

I'm not saying you can't hit things far away with the 5.56 round. It is just a fact that the more powerful 7.62 x 51 round has a longer effective range. So when I do improve... I will not be limited by my rifle/round choice. And I only have to spend that chunk of money once, on magazines, accessories, et cetera. Just looking at the long long term.
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Old 09-01-2010, 03:44 PM   #128
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I hate to disappoint all of you "buy only made in America" crowd, but did you know that a lot of Ford F150's trucks are made in Canada and Toyota trucks are made in Indiana? It is a global world out there whether we like it or not.

I buy what I like best. My CZ-75 is made in Czechoslovakia. The Czech's are the most grateful citizens in all of Europe for the freedom that the US Army brought them in WWII. Their cities today are full of beautiful monuments dedicated to us and they frequently hold patriotic parades that praise the United States WWII effort. Even the late Col Jeff Cooper, USMC said that the CZ-75 is one of his favorite pistols. I shoot what I like. Semper fi...

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Old 09-01-2010, 04:01 PM   #129
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Wise guys ehh.......

Good to see you are a thinking man.

Wait until the day comes when you can hit a 16" gong at 200 yards with a Glock or your pistol of choice. One of my favorite range practices these days is shooting clays at the 100 yard berm (with a pistol). It can be done and I hope you get enough shooting in on your own time to not feel like a dirt bag on the range..

FWIW the SCAR is not all that. LMT piston and DIG guns are soooo much better!! who cares if they look like typical ARs. The SCAR can be very accurate but when we put a can on it the gas that shoots back in our face is WORSE than the crappy old M4s with the same can. They are not as durable either. Nice to look at and fun to play with. I would not buy one or want to be foreced to use one as a working gun though. I will leave them to the ninjas.......
Can? I thought that was a suppressor (I guess I'm not up to speed with gun talk)? Are you talking about a flash suppressor or a muzzle brake? And they aren't durable? From what I read it did well in the rifle trials.

I'm curious to know.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:33 PM   #130
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I am a super fan of the glock. As far as how they are made they are build very well. The operation is simple and effective. They can shoot thousands and thousands of rounds.

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