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-   -   Glock 30SF Dry Fire Question (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f56/glock-30sf-dry-fire-question-4402/)

Dan64456 05-09-2008 10:27 PM

Glock 30SF Dry Fire Question
 
I hear all over the place that it's OK to dry fire Glock's regularly... But I recently heard that there were cases where the breach face got cracked open from excessive dry-fire so now glock issued a warning to customers? Does anyone know whether or not I should use snap caps? I'd hate to leave a snap cap in the chamber when I put the gun away, because I thought you were supposed to pull the trigger for storage to keep tension off the springs? I'd hate to have one in there if I had to load the gun if someone broke into my house with precious seconds ticking away... Anyone?

Thanks

Ruger Redhawk 05-12-2008 05:41 PM

I don't know about using the snap caps. Mine always has the tension on it since it's kept with one in the pipe 24/7.To field strip it you have to snap it on a empty chamber.I don't think once in awhile is an issue but I personally wouldn't recommend doing it repeatedly.

lasvegascop 05-16-2008 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan64456 (Post 23617)
I hear all over the place that it's OK to dry fire Glock's regularly... But I recently heard that there were cases where the breach face got cracked open from excessive dry-fire so now glock issued a warning to customers? Does anyone know whether or not I should use snap caps? I'd hate to leave a snap cap in the chamber when I put the gun away, because I thought you were supposed to pull the trigger for storage to keep tension off the springs? I'd hate to have one in there if I had to load the gun if someone broke into my house with precious seconds ticking away... Anyone?

Thanks

I havent heard that... I dry fire all my pistols, a lot.
Dry firing does not hurt center fire pistols. I shoot competitions and dry firing is excellent practice that you can do in the comfort of your home.

I also use snap caps especially when practicing speed reloads. It makes my family feel safer.

I dont see how you could leave a snap cap in the chamber if you double check the weapon before you put it away like you always do any way, right.. right?

G21.45 05-28-2008 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan64456 (Post 23617)
I hear all over the place that it's OK to dry fire Glock's regularly... But I recently heard that there were cases where the breach face got cracked open from excessive dry-fire so now glock issued a warning to customers? Does anyone know whether or not I should use snap caps?

If the factory has, indeed, finally issued a warning about excessive dry firing then as far as I'm concerned, that would be a good thing. When it comes to someone's favorite anything, reality often takes a back seat to both personal preference and popular myth. The way that I see things: Metal is metal; and everything wears out. This is why I own dozens of expensive A-Zoom snap caps.

I dry fire everyday with my carry pistols. You can be certain that I'm not going to risk damage to my own carry piece because, 'Everybody says it's OK to dry fire the heck out of a Glock.' Like I said; 'No matter the manufacturer, metal is still metal; the firing pin's forward momentum is ultimately stopped by the breech face; and anything mechanical will sooner or later wear out.

The shooting range down the road from me swears that they have an original 1st generation G-17 that has more than a million rounds through it. I suspect their estimate is very close to the truth, too. (It's been completely rebuilt; and, the barrel has been replaced, at least, once.) I'm, also, aware of a major midwest state police agency that trades in their service pistols every 5 years (or 40-50,000 rounds) because of their armorers' reports of increased problems with older Glock frames and other components.

So, who really knows? As far as I'm concerned it's better to err on the side of caution. When I dry fire I use snap caps inside of ALL my firearms.

Quote:

I'd hate to leave a snap cap in the chamber when I put the gun away, because I thought you were supposed to pull the trigger for storage to keep tension off the springs? I'd hate to have one in there if I had to load the gun if someone broke into my house with precious seconds ticking away... Anyone? Thanks
First, Glock's two principal action springs are very easy to replace; so, there's no worry there. (You should keep extras on hand, anyway, right!) Second, you do NOT want to load a fully charged magazine behind a snap cap in a Glock. Many Glocks work best (and most reliably) when they are either hand-charged on an empty chamber, or else from the normal firing impulse created during recoil.

Next, in more than 50 years of handling and using firearms I think it safe to say that I've seen and done it all. This being said: I never, absolutely never, leave a round chambered inside my home. Is there a problem? There really shouldn't be. The fact is that you will respond as you have trained yourself to respond - Period.

The drill for carrying (or storing) a weapon in C-3 is no different than the drill for properly clearing a semiautomatic pistol. You either teach yourself how to, unerringly, do it right the first time and everytime, or you end up with egg on your face after proclaiming something incredibly stupid like; 'I think I'm the only one here (as far as I know) who's professional enough to handle a Glock Fo' Tee!'

Drop the magazine. Clear the chamber. Lower the slide. Do NOT return the magazine to the pistol until you're ready to return the pistol to service. 'C-3 storage' may be considered as a form of, 'service'. The key habit you need to inculcate into your firearms psyche is to never return a loaded magazine to a pistol when the slide is open - UNLESS you anticipate firing the weapon!

Like I said: This is, both, a firearms safety drill as well as an unchanging physical behavior. You do it exactly the same way everytime, or your chances of having a problem somewhere down the line go way up.

Me? I am thoroughly preconditioned to always place my support hand, palm down, over the top of any full-sized pistol's slide and draw it all the way to the rear before allowing it to go forward under its own power. Even if I had a round chambered when moving fast I would, probably, still rack the slide. If you're wondering about how much longer it might take to do this? Typically, about 0.3 second. The disadvantage is that you need to use both hands.

The big advantage is your pistol is going to be a lot safer for your loved ones (and you) to be around. I'll close this out with a subtle fact I've slowly come to learn and appreciate about everyday C-3 carry: Because I know that I'm going to have to use two hands, and that extra 1/3 second has to be there, I tend to be much more alert to the presence of others - their body language, personal behavior, and especially to their hand movement - than many other gunmen who merely carry a sidearm.

As a matter of fact, after 12 years of doing this, I'd recommend C-3 carry to anyone who's daily routine doesn't involve regularly having to draw a weapon. With me it's always more about the safety of my family and friends than it is about being instantly ready to, 'rock 'n roll'.

Most SD gunmen will scrupulously wait, to verify the threat or issue a verbal command and draw, until the problem has advanced to within 7 1/2 yards. Not me! I regularly practice all the way out to 16 1/2 yards; and, I'm ready to begin issuing commands and/or draw at 10 to 12 yards - Which, in a gunfight, has to be a decided advantage! ;)

Dan64456 06-10-2008 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G21.45 (Post 25840)
If the factory has, indeed, finally issued a warning about excessive dry firing then as far as I'm concerned, that would be a good thing. When it comes to someone's favorite anything, reality often takes a back seat to both personal preference and popular myth. The way that I see things: Metal is metal; and everything wears out. This is why I own dozens of expensive A-Zoom snap caps.

I dry fire everyday with my carry pistols. You can be certain that I'm not going to risk damage to my own carry piece because, 'Everybody says it's OK to dry fire the heck out of a Glock.' Like I said; 'No matter the manufacturer, metal is still metal; the firing pin's forward momentum is ultimately stopped by the breech face; and anything mechanical will sooner or later wear out.

The shooting range down the road from me swears that they have an original 1st generation G-17 that has more than a million rounds through it. I suspect their estimate is very close to the truth, too. (It's been completely rebuilt; and, the barrel has been replaced, at least, once.) I'm, also, aware of a major midwest state police agency that trades in their service pistols every 5 years (or 40-50,000 rounds) because of their armorers' reports of increased problems with older Glock frames and other components.

So, who really knows? As far as I'm concerned it's better to err on the side of caution. When I dry fire I use snap caps inside of ALL my firearms.



First, Glock's two principal action springs are very easy to replace; so, there's no worry there. (You should keep extras on hand, anyway, right!) Second, you do NOT want to load a fully charged magazine behind a snap cap in a Glock. Many Glocks work best (and most reliably) when they are either hand-charged on an empty chamber, or else from the normal firing impulse created during recoil.

Next, in more than 50 years of handling and using firearms I think it safe to say that I've seen and done it all. This being said: I never, absolutely never, leave a round chambered inside my home. Is there a problem? There really shouldn't be. The fact is that you will respond as you have trained yourself to respond - Period.

The drill for carrying (or storing) a weapon in C-3 is no different than the drill for properly clearing a semiautomatic pistol. You either teach yourself how to, unerringly, do it right the first time and everytime, or you end up with egg on your face after proclaiming something incredibly stupid like; 'I think I'm the only one here (as far as I know) who's professional enough to handle a Glock Fo' Tee!'

Drop the magazine. Clear the chamber. Lower the slide. Do NOT return the magazine to the pistol until you're ready to return the pistol to service. 'C-3 storage' may be considered as a form of, 'service'. The key habit you need to inculcate into your firearms psyche is to never return a loaded magazine to a pistol when the slide is open - UNLESS you anticipate firing the weapon!

Like I said: This is, both, a firearms safety drill as well as an unchanging physical behavior. You do it exactly the same way everytime, or your chances of having a problem somewhere down the line go way up.

Me? I am thoroughly preconditioned to always place my support hand, palm down, over the top of any full-sized pistol's slide and draw it all the way to the rear before allowing it to go forward under its own power. Even if I had a round chambered when moving fast I would, probably, still rack the slide. If you're wondering about how much longer it might take to do this? Typically, about 0.3 second. The disadvantage is that you need to use both hands.

The big advantage is your pistol is going to be a lot safer for your loved ones (and you) to be around. I'll close this out with a subtle fact I've slowly come to learn and appreciate about everyday C-3 carry: Because I know that I'm going to have to use two hands, and that extra 1/3 second has to be there, I tend to be much more alert to the presence of others - their body language, personal behavior, and especially to their hand movement - than many other gunmen who merely carry a sidearm.

As a matter of fact, after 12 years of doing this, I'd recommend C-3 carry to anyone who's daily routine doesn't involve regularly having to draw a weapon. With me it's always more about the safety of my family and friends than it is about being instantly ready to, 'rock 'n roll'.

Most SD gunmen will scrupulously wait, to verify the threat or issue a verbal command and draw, until the problem has advanced to within 7 1/2 yards. Not me! I regularly practice all the way out to 16 1/2 yards; and, I'm ready to begin issuing commands and/or draw at 10 to 12 yards - Which, in a gunfight, has to be a decided advantage! ;)

Ok... Now the manual also says to drop the clip, rack the slide (eject round), point in safe direction, pull the trigger... This means with nothing in the chamber. Is it good unloading practice to pull the trigger, or just leave it cocked (when unloaded)? Thanks for all of the info... And I'm guessing you're also saying I should carry unchambered when CCW'ing?

Thanks again.

G21.45 06-10-2008 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan64456 (Post 27355)
Ok... Now the manual also says to drop the clip, rack the slide (eject round), point in safe direction, pull the trigger ... This means with nothing in the chamber.

Is it good unloading practice to pull the trigger, or just leave it cocked (when unloaded)? Thanks for all of the info .... And I'm guessing you're also saying I should carry unchambered when CCW'ing? Thanks again.

:) You know, Dan, I think someone would have to be crazy to try to tell others what to do, nowadays. We aren't a nation of listeners, anymore. This is especially true of attempting to tell someone what to do over the internet. Fingers often move faster than brains.

There's a big difference between telling other gunmen what to do, and suggesting that certain gunmen might want to think about doing things differently. Me? This is the way I always try to leave things: 'This is what I do; sometimes, I'll say, 'Why' I do it; and, thereafter, everyone can take it from there!'

Obviously, I already own a Glock. I, also, have to pull the trigger every time I disassemble my pistol. Still, this isn't the same thing as dry firing a Glock 50 times, each day, on an empty chamber while practicing - Now, is it!

Someone who's 65 is going to look at the world a whole lot different than someone else who's only in his 30's. My suggestion would be for you NOT to pull the trigger on a Glock anymore than you really have to. The factory used to design Glock storage boxes so that you had to pull the trigger in order to store the pistol. Those boxes were discontinued when one too many owner/users ended up shooting themselves or someone else with their, 'empty' pistols.

The only time I'll store a Glock with the trigger in the rearward position is when it's going into the safe for an extended period of time. Otherwise the trigger remains forward. You're, also, NOT going to hurt your Glock by leaving the trigger in the forward position. (Besides, the two springs involved are very easy to change!)

In regard to my practice of carrying a CCW pistol in C-3: First, I place my family's overall safety above any possible need for instantaneous self-defense. I'm not in law enforcement; and, neither, am I a, 'cowboy'. I, also, practice my Mossad draw something like 50 or 60 times each week; and, I handle guns all day long too. This makes me an atypical gunman, and a pretty fast one - too. Besides, I ain't stupid. I'm smart enough to know when and where I should have a round chambered; and, around my home is NOT one of those places.

Should you do what I do? Maybe, maybe not. (I won't go beyond recommending it!) Frankly, I don't know you well enough to emphatically make that call. One other thing: I do dry fire my Glocks. That's why I own magazines full of A-Zoom snap caps. I combine dry fire with practicing my draw. The two disciplines work very well together. ;)

redreed 03-10-2009 06:35 PM

Here are my rules of thumb, for whatever weight you care to give them:

1. Although you can safely dry fire the Glock, always use snap caps to reduce wear on the weapon.

2. The purpose of dry fire practice is to promote muscle learning and to develop good habits. One of the most importeant habits to learn is to clear the chamber when you are finished.

3. When practicing on the range and learning proper trigger squeeze, the best way to do is is have your training partner put 4 rounds of dummy and 1 live round in the magazine. When you can consistantly hit with the live round without anticipation, put 3 of 7 live rounds, then 5 of 7. Practicing with dummy rounds achieves two things. It makes you alert to anticipation, and it generates an automatic skill in malfuntion recovery.

4. Unless you are eager to score your first human kill at the earliest possible moment (accidental or otherwise), NEVER, store or carry a round in the chamber unless the use of the firearm is imminent AND LIKELY.

redreed 03-10-2009 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan64456 (Post 27355)
Ok... Now the manual also says to drop the clip, rack the slide (eject round), point in safe direction, pull the trigger... This means with nothing in the chamber. Is it good unloading practice to pull the trigger, or just leave it cocked (when unloaded)? Thanks for all of the info... And I'm guessing you're also saying I should carry unchambered when CCW'ing?

Thanks again.

Glock manual says:

1, Eject the mag.
2. Check the chamber (verify it is empty).
3. Point the weapon in a safe direction.
4. Pull the trigger.

In other words, yes. It is good practice to store the weapon without tension on the trigger.

And yes. Unless you are anticipating the imminent use of the weapon, carry unchambered.

Megaton 03-13-2009 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redreed (Post 80409)
And yes. Unless you are anticipating the imminent use of the weapon, carry unchambered.


I could be completely wrong here, but I think that most people who carry are going to disagree with that statement. You are not necessarily anticipating the imminent use of the weapon, but it is important that you are ready to use the weapon if needed, if the situation arises.

If you are about to get mugged, do you have time to draw and then rack your slide?

Do LEOs carry unchambered?

Also, what about with revolvers. Are you saying with a 5 shot revolver I should only load 4 rounds so I have to pull the trigger twice to get the first shot off?

Think about it, why would you NOT carry chambered? Not saying that its pointless to carry unchambered, but in many situations that would require you to use deadly force to defend yourself, carrying unchambered will likely cost you your life.

sgtdeath66 03-13-2009 02:10 AM

only time i would dry fire mine was when i would practice my trigger pull or when i was cleaning the gun. other than that it was always ready to fire. but i wouldnt think a dry fire m=now and then would do damage:cool:


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