Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Training & Safety > Why the us military forces don't know how to use other countries weapons???

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-12-2013, 02:50 PM   #11
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Northeast San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,529
Liked 647 Times on 443 Posts
Likes Given: 46

Default

Oh and we played with a captured aa 4 barreled 12.7 mm I've got a video somewhere where we came running out of our barracks jumped into the 3 seats and spun the wheels as fast as we could to get us spinning and the barrel traversing until someone got sick and fell off( the **** soldiers do to entertain themselves in a combat zone)

__________________

this message was sent using my Barrett 50 straight to your brain.

seancslaughter is offline  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 03:12 PM   #12
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
John_Deer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,649
Liked 1387 Times on 941 Posts
Likes Given: 486

Default

In our current conflicts I would be careful about picking up anything lying there like a shiny penny. I don't care to find out if there are 72 virgins or Saint Peter in heaven.

__________________

Nothing in the affairs of men is worthy of great anxiety - Plato

John_Deer is offline  
4
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 04:27 PM   #13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Alwayscarrying's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Barboursville,West Virginia
Posts: 101
Liked 17 Times on 12 Posts

Default

We don't receive specialized training in other weapon systems because like Doc said, we have so many other things to train on and achieve on any given day. In addition to that not all of us are dedicated trigger pullers. Now, some of us may get the opportunity to partake in informal training with foreign visiting militaries. Like in AIT, we had a lot of aussies coming to the U.S. to attend some of our schools and we trained with them to some extent. On that note, Australia probably has the better of the AUG variants.

__________________
Alwayscarrying is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 04:28 PM   #14
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 288
Liked 36 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WebleyFosbery38 View Post
Hi Mark, In 1980, I entered Basic Training, by my 4th week, I had fired both an AK 47 and 74 and heard the bullets from both whiz over my head in a razor ribbon covered low crawl trench. 21 years later, I retired with that being pretty much my only formal Hands On training with Opposing Forces small arms other than flash cards and Post Museums that contained captured equipment. I never saw combat but lots of my friends have, they definitely got lots of time familiarizing themselves during the trainup period and in the box time. I wouldnt feel to safe trying to dodge AK bullets fired by a Seasoned War Vet, you may find yourself dead doing so.

I never got taught that IED's would be our biggest threat in a war, we were taught our enemy had eyes and ears just like us. Sadly, our chicken Sh!t enemies wont confront us with AK anything if they have a chance to blow us up without risking their own asses doing it. Identifying and disarming IED's is much more pertinent general training than how to fire an AK.

The training needed to become an 11H (Anti Armor) in the 90's was pretty intense and deep with US Equipment alone. My platoon carried 4 TOW Missile Systems, 2/ Mark 19's and 2/ 50 Cal Machine Guns. Thats 3 full crew serve weapons systems that every single member of the platoon must know intimately and a wheeled vehicle to move us and our crap everywhere. Thats pretty much enough without learning the possible enemies weapons as well. Too many possibilities with that one, were better off adding specific training about our enemies weapons into the mix just before and during deployment otherwise its a guess what your enemy will throw at you.
Thank you for sharing your experience.But it is still strange to me.I was to trained to use almost everything-and I keep learning still today.I keep myself up-to-date(I keep learning how to use new generation weapons, even I'm a retired vet)
__________________
Mark_Van_Goth is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 04:35 PM   #15
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 288
Liked 36 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
Too many subjects, too much maintenance, too little time.

SOME US forces do receive VERY basic training on OPFOR rifles. We would prefer that they not use OPFOR weapons except as a last resort- I tended to shoot at the sound of an AK being fired.
If you have got involved into a battle than you know a basic rules:On one size, you draw friendly fire;on the other you confuse the enemy because he didn't realize that you're getting closer.I undarstand what you say, but...I was trained differently.E.g.: I hate the AR15 platform because buttstock cannot be folded.This feature, present on the ak platform, saved my life several times and made the ak a superior weapon in CQC
__________________
Mark_Van_Goth is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 06:16 PM   #16
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 288
Liked 36 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WebleyFosbery38 View Post
Note the OP didnt say we lost many battles because we couldnt field strip an AK in the dark! Our Systems and small arms are pretty reliable and from what Ive been told, Uncle Sugar has lots of Bullets (even if we cant get any for our civilian weapons).

One last note, I bought owned and sold my first and only AK in 1985, it was fun but worth twice what I had bought it for just 3 weeks prior so down the road it went!
Pretty reliable?I bet I can permanently disable with no difficulties an M16/M4 in normal combat operation.How?Simple:Put it into the water(let's say river or lake), take out quickly and try to shoot it.The receiver will blow up!Alternatively, you can try to throw in a sand bag and hope the bolt is not opened, neighter.If only small quantities will enter the chamber the game is over.The ar15 platform has been improved a lot but...would you compare it to the vz58, any AK, any HK G3,FAL or galil or HK416/7 series?...Please,be serious.

Personally, I consider the AR15 a great platform, but the way it works is not even far away it shout work.That's why the US govenment opted to replace the M4/M16 with the HK416 series!It uses a better gas system(short-stroke gas system instead of the direct infringement) and is far more reliable.

THE HK126 IS A BADASS WEAPON....RELIABLE AS THE AK, ACCURATE AS THE M16.
__________________
Mark_Van_Goth is offline  
Anna_Purna Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 06:39 PM   #17
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 288
Liked 36 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna_Purna View Post
Back in the 6 day war between Israel and the towelheadites, Israeli Soldiers would opt to put down their M16s and use the enemys AK's. Aks have a distict sound over an M16, and they learned they were getting more 'friendly fire' accidents using the enemys rifles over their own. I'd say that is probably one reason why the US military doesn't train in other countries weapons.
Are you sure that it is not, at least partially, a matter of the so called "American-made foolosophy"?Americans are used to give great importance to the fact the something is made in the USA(Strong National spirit).Even if the stuff is evidently "inferior" to the foreing one.Example given?Would you compare the european small arms manufacturers with the American ones?!We have HK, FN Herstal,Beretta, Benelli, Zastava Arms, Mauser, etc.These suppliers are known among the whole world for being "la creme de la creme"("The elite", "the best of") of weapon manufacturing.But the US govenment was used to stick to the US made stuff, even if the european stuff was much better.Now they finally change their minds, even because many EU manufacturer openend their facilities in the USA, so the local production may take place even in the USA.

Face it:The HK G3 was superior to the first versions of the M16, so it is now the g36(Considered by many as the "natural succesor" tp the G3), HK416.The best submachinegun in the world is still the HK MP5(you can say or think what you want...just ask any spec ops unit), the best pistol(handgun) is the HK P2000.All are German made.The best sniper rifle?Accuracy international AWM, UK made.The best anti-riot gun?FN 300, belgian made.The best AK even made?Zastava M70, Serbian made.The best machinegun and most inspiring machinegun?MG42 and its derivatives(Like the MG3, again German.The first and most important Bolt action ever made?Mauser 98, again german made.An the list goes on.

Let me say it:Americans are innovators as well, but they cannot compete with europeans in terms of quality.
__________________

Last edited by Mark_Van_Goth; 11-12-2013 at 06:51 PM.
Mark_Van_Goth is offline  
Anna_Purna Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 06:42 PM   #18
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 288
Liked 36 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by seancslaughter View Post
In 2003-04 my unit had to train 150 icdc troops in basic small unit tactics and small arms not one of us had a problem picking up an ak and operating it and breaking it down and not only aks but we captured a few g3 clones a bunch of makarovs and tokerovs, RPGs and tons of other weapons we familiarized ourselves with the weapons then repurposed them for use by the icdc guys. We were always told not to pick up and use enemy weapons by our command. They always said if it's that bad another m16 or m4 will be laying around for you to pick up personally I'll grab a RPG, an ak, an rpk or whatever I need to to kill them first and get back home
That's the way it should be done...almost.Using the weapons of the enemy might be dangerous, but if necessary it can save your life.And sometimes the enemy has some really "nasty" stuff...why should you it against him?
__________________
Mark_Van_Goth is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 06:42 PM   #19
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 732
Liked 401 Times on 219 Posts
Likes Given: 82

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Van_Goth View Post
Let me say it:Americans are innovators as well, but cannot compete with europeans in terms of quality.
Welcome to globalization. The current M4's and M16's are made by FN in a plant located in North Carolina (U.S.A.)

For the longest time H&K was owned by BAE, which is a British company and many in the SAS considered their MP5's to be "British" guns because H&K was owned by a British company.
__________________

"For every problem there is always a solution that is simple, obvious, and wrong." - Mark Twain

My Firearm Reviews -
Beretta U22 Neos
Magnum Research Baby Eagle II .45 ACP

CrazedJava is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2013, 06:46 PM   #20
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 288
Liked 36 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazedJava View Post
It's been a long time since I talked to anyone in the military on the subject that would know anything about it but here is the best of my recollection.

Part of it is simple training. It takes a decent amount of time to become truly proficient with any weapon, and for those that may actually have to fire their weapons in anger it's more than range time. So that's hours, days, and weeks worth of time lugging around your M16, M4, M60, M240, M249, or whatever it is they are using these days (The M60 is retired, right?). The basics of firearms usage is pretty much the same. Assault rifles have selector switches, triggers, bullets come out the pointy end, etc. However, the variations between function, caliber, and ergonomics can vary wildly even though I think most Americans, especially non-military, just assume all the bad guys use some kind of AK.

Aside from proficiency though, I was told that American service members were discouraged from picking up enemy weapons because there is no knowledge of what the maintenance of said weapon has had. Why drop an M16 in the middle of battle that you have some idea of what you've done with it versus some stranger's weapon that could have been drug through the mud. I say this with the full knowledge that some of my college classmates were involved in Desert Shield/Storm and carried enemy AK's on a regular basis, but these were weapons recovered in the field and maintained by their unit. Interestingly, I have not heard any stories about our latest Middle Eastern adventures of US troops using non-US weapons.

All in all, I think picking up an unknown weapon and using it is a last resort. Whether military or otherwise. Too many unknowns.
Interesting opinion.I agree partially with it.Why?Simple.Your enemy will look after about his weapons as you would, since even he wants to neutralize you.While in combat, I took and used one of the best serviced rifles of my life.Sure, you have to check 'em, but one the job has been done, you can used them on regular basis.
__________________
Mark_Van_Goth is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
"As Military Suicides Rise, Focus Is on Private Weapons" Wiebelhaus Politics, Religion and Controversy 2 10-08-2012 06:03 AM
What's the best military/police light weapons manufacturer in the world theeuropeangoth General Rifle Discussion 9 08-26-2012 06:08 PM
Military With a Concealed Weapons Permit danf_fl NFA/Class 3 & FFL Discussion 12 07-26-2012 05:12 PM
Info on personal weapons in the military. Kenney Legal and Activism 30 06-13-2012 04:08 AM
odd military weapons AkMuscle49 Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion 2 02-28-2008 05:10 PM