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-   -   Why the us military forces don't know how to use other countries weapons??? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f55/why-us-military-forces-dont-know-how-use-other-countries-weapons-100259/)

Mark_Van_Goth 11-12-2013 11:05 AM

Why the us military forces don't know how to use other countries weapons???
 
As far as I know, only (relatively) recently the us armed forces began to train their soldier to get used to other countries' weapons(Like the ak, steyr,etc).And with really bad results-I have seen these trainings and let me say it:The average (standard) soldier is not able to use an AK as good as I'm able to use his M16/M4 carbine or an AR15 derivative.
I'm just wondering why the american military doctrine is so focused on american weapons and ignore the rest of the world.Its troops has to face several enemies around the world, but the average american soldier simply doesn't know the enemy rifles or simply doesn't know how to operate them.Now try to imagine the following:You just run out of ammo, your only chance to get back to home alive is to use the enemy's weapons against him.But you never learnt how to use them.So what are your going to?Cry like a baby and hope the enemy will have mercy of you?!

I have seen and heards so many times the other countries' military forces complaining about the fact the us soldiers have the greatest lack of knowledge concerning the small arms sector.The don't know how to load, to clean, to un-jam and sometimes even how to shoot the weapons(E.g.:How to disable the safety).
Why the us government doesn't provide some extra training???

WebleyFosbery38 11-12-2013 11:34 AM

Hi Mark, In 1980, I entered Basic Training, by my 4th week, I had fired both an AK 47 and 74 and heard the bullets from both whiz over my head in a razor ribbon covered low crawl trench. 21 years later, I retired with that being pretty much my only formal Hands On training with Opposing Forces small arms other than flash cards and Post Museums that contained captured equipment. I never saw combat but lots of my friends have, they definitely got lots of time familiarizing themselves during the trainup period and in the box time. I wouldnt feel to safe trying to dodge AK bullets fired by a Seasoned War Vet, you may find yourself dead doing so.

I never got taught that IED's would be our biggest threat in a war, we were taught our enemy had eyes and ears just like us. Sadly, our chicken Sh!t enemies wont confront us with AK anything if they have a chance to blow us up without risking their own asses doing it. Identifying and disarming IED's is much more pertinent general training than how to fire an AK.

The training needed to become an 11H (Anti Armor) in the 90's was pretty intense and deep with US Equipment alone. My platoon carried 4 TOW Missile Systems, 2/ Mark 19's and 2/ 50 Cal Machine Guns. Thats 3 full crew serve weapons systems that every single member of the platoon must know intimately and a wheeled vehicle to move us and our crap everywhere. Thats pretty much enough without learning the possible enemies weapons as well. Too many possibilities with that one, were better off adding specific training about our enemies weapons into the mix just before and during deployment otherwise its a guess what your enemy will throw at you.

c3shooter 11-12-2013 11:50 AM

Too many subjects, too much maintenance, too little time.

SOME US forces do receive VERY basic training on OPFOR rifles. We would prefer that they not use OPFOR weapons except as a last resort- I tended to shoot at the sound of an AK being fired.

WebleyFosbery38 11-12-2013 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c3shooter (Post 1429660)
Too many subjects, too much maintenance, too little time.

SOME US forces do receive VERY basic training on OPFOR rifles. We would prefer that they not use OPFOR weapons except as a last resort- I tended to shoot at the sound of an AK being fired.

Note the OP didnt say we lost many battles because we couldnt field strip an AK in the dark! Our Systems and small arms are pretty reliable and from what Ive been told, Uncle Sugar has lots of Bullets (even if we cant get any for our civilian weapons).

One last note, I bought owned and sold my first and only AK in 1985, it was fun but worth twice what I had bought it for just 3 weeks prior so down the road it went!

Anna_Purna 11-12-2013 12:16 PM

Back in the 6 day war between Israel and the towelheadites, Israeli Soldiers would opt to put down their M16s and use the enemys AK's. Aks have a distict sound over an M16, and they learned they were getting more 'friendly fire' accidents using the enemys rifles over their own. I'd say that is probably one reason why the US military doesn't train in other countries weapons.

seancslaughter 11-12-2013 12:17 PM

In 2003-04 my unit had to train 150 icdc troops in basic small unit tactics and small arms not one of us had a problem picking up an ak and operating it and breaking it down and not only aks but we captured a few g3 clones a bunch of makarovs and tokerovs, RPGs and tons of other weapons we familiarized ourselves with the weapons then repurposed them for use by the icdc guys. We were always told not to pick up and use enemy weapons by our command. They always said if it's that bad another m16 or m4 will be laying around for you to pick up personally I'll grab a RPG, an ak, an rpk or whatever I need to to kill them first and get back home

Jagermeister 11-12-2013 12:22 PM

The Germans and US forces get to practice with each other's firearms over here.

seancslaughter 11-12-2013 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagermeister
The Germans and US forces get to practice with each other's firearms over here.

yeah I got my shutzanschneer sp? when I was on tdy in Graf in 2001

CrazedJava 11-12-2013 02:24 PM

It's been a long time since I talked to anyone in the military on the subject that would know anything about it but here is the best of my recollection.

Part of it is simple training. It takes a decent amount of time to become truly proficient with any weapon, and for those that may actually have to fire their weapons in anger it's more than range time. So that's hours, days, and weeks worth of time lugging around your M16, M4, M60, M240, M249, or whatever it is they are using these days (The M60 is retired, right?). The basics of firearms usage is pretty much the same. Assault rifles have selector switches, triggers, bullets come out the pointy end, etc. However, the variations between function, caliber, and ergonomics can vary wildly even though I think most Americans, especially non-military, just assume all the bad guys use some kind of AK.

Aside from proficiency though, I was told that American service members were discouraged from picking up enemy weapons because there is no knowledge of what the maintenance of said weapon has had. Why drop an M16 in the middle of battle that you have some idea of what you've done with it versus some stranger's weapon that could have been drug through the mud. I say this with the full knowledge that some of my college classmates were involved in Desert Shield/Storm and carried enemy AK's on a regular basis, but these were weapons recovered in the field and maintained by their unit. Interestingly, I have not heard any stories about our latest Middle Eastern adventures of US troops using non-US weapons.

All in all, I think picking up an unknown weapon and using it is a last resort. Whether military or otherwise. Too many unknowns.

SSGN_Doc 11-12-2013 02:31 PM

Who's got time to train with OPFOR weapons with all of the other required training?

I've got to get through:

Disaster Preparedness.
Anti-terrorism
Information security
Health Information Protection
Sensitivity training toward gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender personnel
Benefits changes with regard to gay marriage
Sexual harrasment prevention
Sexual assault prevention and reporting
Responsible alcohol use
Synthetic drug recognition and prevention
Management of civilian personnel and furlough
BLS
TCCC
ACLS
Fill out command climate surveys,
Attend training planning meetings
Personnel staffing meetings
Answer patient complaints
Vaccine training
Teach Basic Corpsman Skills classes
Conduct advancement training
Physical fitness training 3-4 times per week.

Oh yeah, and do my job supervising my 120 person staff of Junior enlisted, junior officers, and civilian medical assistants, nurses, and physiscians assistant, and maintain 25 hours of patient contact time per month (what was once my primary job only requires 25 hours per month), along with 18 continuting medical eduaction units per year. Write periodic evaluations, transfer evaluations, awards, disciplinary counseling, and training record entries.

What were we talking about?


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