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Old 02-13-2009, 03:50 PM   #21
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I can still run if I need to. I am not lightning fast, but properly motivated I am hard to keep up with for about 25 yards.

Otherwise, I rely on size (225#), strength, and training to buy me the time I need to clear a weapon or find safety. For years I was taught that when you are in a self-defense situation, any reaction is superior to no reaction.

Simply by executing some kind of plan, you dramatically increase your chance of survival. By acting quickly, you steal initiative from your assailant and force him to react to you (This is a double-edged sword).

The real trick is getting him to react in a way that benefits you.
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Old 02-14-2009, 02:49 AM   #22
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I'm 47 and I run about three miles every day with my dogs. With that said I carry even when I run (S&W M&P 9mm compact). I can move fairly fast and have two large dogs running with me. I carry the pistol with me for the same reason I carry my cell phone when jogging, "the what if factor". While my dogs are great home protectors when we go running or out in public they are very people friendly (as they should be). I expect If I was attacked they would respond but what if they didn't.

In the midst of a confrontation there is the fight or flight considerration and in truth you won't know what is the right choice until it happens so prepare for both.
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Old 02-15-2009, 05:40 PM   #23
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I'm handicapped (until I get a hip replacement again) so run is not an option for me... I must engage the intruder, be proficient with my gun, period.
I could jump a little just to get cover, and stuff but I can't run away, I barely walk without a cane.
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Old 02-16-2009, 01:26 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentacop View Post
Some of the ideas appearing on this thread are, well, "questionable".

Key Points :
1) Do not tamper with evidence ( see Ayoobs 5 reasons not to ) .

2) Do not let anyone see your carry gun . They may call the police and lie, saying you brandished it ...or do worse .

3) If an intruder has broken into your home, assume he is an imminant threat to life and limb .
Rent,
I expect your key points are advice and not what you considered questionable? As 1-3 key points seem like good advice.
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Old 02-16-2009, 05:44 PM   #25
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WDB :
I should have clarified that these are my points offered in rebuttal to some ideas posted earlier . Sorry for the confusion.
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Old 02-16-2009, 06:49 PM   #26
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Wanted to add some instruction for home defense :
Regardless of what the law says, courts and police are likely to give you the benefit of the doubt if you shoot an intruder who has broken into your home . The mere fact that he has broken in and is loose inside is cause for you to fear for life and limb . That means you are legally justified in using deadly force , although some court somewhere is bound to rule the opposite .
Still, you could get yourself into legal trouble if you babble too much to the police . You must not make any reference to shooting to save property. In the eyes of the law, you are almost never justified in shooting except to save life and limb .
Another way to go to jail might be to fire through a locked bedroom door . A jury might say you should have waited to see if the door got forced open and only fired at an identifiable target .
If you know the intruder, that may complicate matters . The authorities will wonder if the intruder had some right to enter the house , even if he had to force his way in . Obtaining a protection order now against a threatening person will put you on solid legal ground in case that person breaks into your home later .
In general, you are not required to retreat within your own home or try to escape your home ; you may stand your ground . Otherwise, the laws on deadly force in the home are similar to to those outside the home :
1) You must reasonably fear for life and limb.
2) You must not provoke the attacker .
3) You must stop shooting as soon as the threat is neutralized .

You shoot to "stop" , not to "kill" . Whether the attacker dies or not is immaterial .

Do not fire warning shots because this wastes ammo, may endanger innocents and could provoke the intruder into firing back .

Do not shoot to wound because you could miss altogether or fail to incapacitate the intruder . Your shots will be considered deadly force even if you shoot to wound . If you aren't worried enough to shoot to stop, you probably shouldn't shoot at all . If anyone tells you he will shoot to wound, set up a " running leg " target at the range and see if he can hit it . I call it " shooting to miss " .

You may choose to capture or scare away the intruder instead of firing . That is up to you .

If the intruder leaves the house, you may still be justified in shooting at him but only if he still represents an imminent threat . An escaping gunman may represent a threat to the public in general . An armed man in retreat can turn and fire at you at any moment . He may retreat only to take cover .

Massad Ayoob advises that you tell responding police officers that the person(s) you shot attacked you and that you want him or them arrested and will be willing to sign the complaint , point out evidence and places where evidence may be found, etc . Speak to your lawyer before giving a detailed statement .

This is all predicated on someone having broken a window or forced a lock and entering the home. If you fire through the front door before he forces it open, you could easily be charged with murder . If you shoot someone outside the house, he could turn out to be a drunk who went to the wrong house, the paper carrier, a neighborhood teen going for a dip in your pool or a vandal doing property damage . Any of these scenerios would land you in legal hot water .
Jeff Cooper's Rule #4 : " Be sure of your target and what's behind it " .
For more info. , read Massad Ayoob's, In The Gravest Extreme , and watch Ron Jason's video, " Deadly Force "
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Old 02-20-2009, 02:46 AM   #27
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A good add on Rent.
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:10 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
I can still run if I need to. I am not lightning fast, but properly motivated I am hard to keep up with for about 25 yards.

Otherwise, I rely on size (225#), strength, and training to buy me the time I need to clear a weapon or find safety. For years I was taught that when you are in a self-defense situation, any reaction is superior to no reaction.

Simply by executing some kind of plan, you dramatically increase your chance of survival. By acting quickly, you steal initiative from your assailant and force him to react to you (This is a double-edged sword).

The real trick is getting him to react in a way that benefits you.

Well put, Scrapper.

This is an interesting topic, particularly in the light of living in a counntry where self defence via any kind of firearm is illegal. in fact, you'd probably have trouble justifying self defence with a knife as well, most likely...


I do twice-weekly training in tactical krav maga (ie a bit more uh, "brutal" than the usual form lol), and since I live in a vaguely sketchy area this gives me pretty good motivation to learn. We are taught defences against knife, stick/baton, and both handguns & longarms. We are also taught that if someone is just a psycho and wanna shoot you, well not much you can do there. If they want your money, keys, possessions etc GIVE IT TO THEM.

But...if they hold a gun on you and say "Get in the car/backroom/whatever" then you do not want to be taken to a secondary crime scene, as statisically you are not likely to survive. In that case, you MUST fight for your life...you must at least try to disarm them...get in first...close the distance on the gunman (completely not what your instincts would normally be!), disarm, hit them in the face with the gun, move back, tap/rack and hold it on them. Shoot if necessary.

At least that's what we are trained to do, in that specific situation.
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhuk View Post
But...if they hold a gun on you and say "Get in the car/backroom/whatever" then you do not want to be taken to a secondary crime scene, as statisically you are not likely to survive. In that case, you MUST fight for your life...you must at least try to disarm them...get in first...close the distance on the gunman (completely not what your instincts would normally be!), disarm, hit them in the face with the gun, move back, tap/rack and hold it on them. Shoot if necessary.

At least that's what we are trained to do, in that specific situation.
Right on and well stated ZHUK. Indeed, that is what I am trained to do in the same situation also. You have 2 choices: Fight to live another day or die with no fight, simple.
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:11 PM   #30
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It seems that more and more out there it simply isn't about the money. People who readily give up their wallets are beaten just for the fun of it. Hell, they can have my ATM card with the whole twenty six bucks in the account. As for the credit cards, let em try to use them HA!

sure steal my identity, let all those creditors come after you, dumazz
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