Why Rob Pincus now prefers the 9mm over .40 S&W for self defense - Page 5
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Why Rob Pincus now prefers the 9mm over .40 S&W for self defense


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Old 09-22-2011, 02:04 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by therewolf View Post
IMO, the true danger here is Rob Pincus may lure someone

away from a SD pistol with which they are competent.

CCW is very personal. I think women do it best, because they

have a purse or handbag, and can carry that .22 or .380

easily wherever they go, 24/7.

While I personally like to carry .45 and 9mm, I've even

carried a .44 for a week. But I can't really state which is

better for everybody, everytime.


CCW is sort of like being a submarine commander. Many times you

have to make a decision based on incomplete,incorrect,or

missing information. And God help you if you're wrong.

Training is key, and crime statistics are dropping like a rock,

so we, the law abiding CCW public, must be doing something

right.

Congratulations, and kudos to you all...
Boil it down...carry quality. Train with it. BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE carry something more than 911 on your speed dial.
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Old 09-22-2011, 04:47 PM   #42
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Boil it down...carry quality. Train with it. BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE carry something more than 911 on your speed dial.
Ah, do you prefer the 9mm, or the .45 cell phone ?
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Old 09-22-2011, 04:55 PM   #43
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CCW is sort of like being a submarine commander. Many times you

have to make a decision based on incomplete,incorrect,or

missing information. And God help you if you're wrong.
Luckily, the Sub Commander of the modern era isn't just making guesses in the dark, there is plenty of actual data and resources to base your decisions on. If we throw up our hands and say "well, chose whatever you want, your fate is in your hands," we might as well burn all the libraries and close the schools. Educated decisions and informed opinion are much better than respecting personal preference or relying on a lucky guess.

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IMO, the true danger here is Rob Pincus may lure someone

away from a SD pistol with which they are competent.
I really don't think you understood the article. Being "competent" is a subjective concept. The physics difference in recoil between 9mm and .40 is real. The capacity difference is real. The ability to shoot a given 9mm "more competently" than the same gun in .40 is real.


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Old 09-22-2011, 06:21 PM   #44
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IMO, the true danger here is Rob Pincus may lure someone

away from a SD pistol with which they are competent.
I doubt that anyone who is competent will be lured away. Typically those that are competent know their weapons and are not so easily swayed by others opinions.

It's the incompetent who can typically be easily manipulated.
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Old 09-22-2011, 11:46 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Rob Pincus View Post
Thanks for sharing the article and thanks for discussing it here, guys.
Rob, good to see you back! Its been a while (2009 but who's counting? ) but it's always an honor to have you participate.

I have read your article and have some experience to share.

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Originally Posted by Rob Pincus View Post
Agreed.... but, I think the boat is best rocked with a well thought out presentation of concepts, not hyperbole and selective quotation.
We do tend to excel at hyperbole here on the forum.

It's my chore to kick the players back in-bounds.




I think this is the most significant quote I took from your article:

"For me, while it may be frustrating and/or disappointing to find out I was wrong about something, I have learned to balance that negative with what I think is a much more significant positive: Learning Something Better."


The reason I picked that quote is complicated and requires some historical information.

I have, over 65 rotations of our sun, shifted caliber gears many times. My early go-to was the 45 ACP and had developed a personal satisfaction in my competency in its use.

Around 1990, I got sucked into the glock koolaid cult and got me a G22. I honestly think I hated that gun from day one but I had the "Gun of Choice" for the era. I could hit anything with it, on the first shot, then embarrassed myself with followups. The more I shot the 40 S&W the less I liked it. I just could not warm up to the caliber.

After a decade I went back to the 45 ACP in a new Colt 1911. Fun came back to shooting and the skill I thought I had lost came back with the caliber change. Comfortable with my decision I became a big bore bigot and trash talked anything other than the 45.

I am, and always have been, a John Moses Browning disciple. As I grew older, I developed a bucket list that included a Browning Hi-Power. A couple of years ago I checked that box on my bucket list with the purchase of a 1989 P-35. I had shot the BHP in the past but not enough to really appreciate the JMB DNA inherent in the "Grande Puissance" pistol. I was enamored with the gun and the more I shot it, the better I became. I can say, without hesitation, I can shoot my BHP better now (even with these old eyes) than I ever shot any handgun, including my SAA cowboy, leather-slap days!

The Mozambique Drill was at one time a great story to tell, but not a skill I could demonstrate. With my Browning, I can now walk the walk!

My "any other than 45 ACP" bigotry has melted away and the BHP has become my EDC. This is due to my confidence in the reliability of this gun and my efficacy with it.

I even coined a canebrake quote, It's not what you send but where it's delivered."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Pincus View Post
Being "competent" is a subjective concept. The physics difference in recoil between 9mm and .40 is real. The capacity difference is real. The ability to shoot a given 9mm "more competently" than the same gun in .40 is real.
This is the reason I sought out a BHP in 9mm. I had come to understand the "physics" of the 40 S&W and had NO desire to own another gun so chambered. I was pleasantly surprised as I got acquainted to what turned out to be an old friend.

Now back to your article, it is important to be true to yourself. We need to be “always a student” and when we learn we are wrong, we need to accept the fact and make adjustments. For example; If I were a bad guy facing me, I'd rather [me] be toting the 40 cal G22 instead of a 9mm BHP! Why, because regardless what the current-think as to the 9mm vs 40 S&W stopping power winner is, the shot placement and cycle speed of the 9mm is superior in my hands.

I echo what you said in your closing;

"I let anyone who asks me about defensive guns or bullets know how I feel today, despite years of recommending the .40 and talking about how it was a great compromise between the 9mm and .45. In the mid-90’s I was wrong about the advantages of that round and I have definitely changed my mind about the inadequacies of the 9mm. Acknowledging that I was wrong in the past, is the only way that I can share what I now believe is the best recommendation I can give."


I also make that recommendation with the understanding that there just may be someone out there that is good with a G22. (Bless their soul! )

IOW, keep an open mind and respect what others have found to be their "Best Choice" PD gun/caliber. They may become enlightened at some point in time.
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:23 AM   #46
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"Rob Pincus prefers . . ." is the key. I prefer the G23. It just feels good in my hands. I can shoot accurately with it. I am confident with it. Isn't that what it's all about with so many choices, what feels right for you?
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Old 09-23-2011, 03:32 AM   #47
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"Rob Pincus prefers . . ." is the key. I prefer the G23. It just feels good in my hands. I can shoot accurately with it. I am confident with it. Isn't that what it's all about with so many choices, what feels right for you?
Bingo!!! That's a fantastic first post! I couldn't have said it better myself, and welcome to FTF!
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Old 09-23-2011, 04:04 AM   #48
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Unfortunately, several of you seem to be picking and choosing which parts to read (or at least reference in your rebuttals).
Guilty. I read the article, and regard you with respect as an instructor. I absolutely agreed with the point of your article. I zeroed in on the part of the article I didn't agree with. I based my rebuttal on a personal experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Pincus View Post
As the much more important point of the article alludes to, we should all be willing to change our minds about something we believe if we are presented with enough information and have an open enough mind.... as well as a desire to not simply "be right" all the time. In that spirit, I certainly expect people to disagree with my conclusions about caliber for defense, but simply choosing one argument (cost or capacity, as has been done in this thread) to pounce on and deride is kinda ridiculous.
The argument for why the 9mm was what you closed your article with, and that's what I took away from reading it... primarily because I preach "never get in a mindset and stay there" when I'm teaching a class, whether it's a military, law enforcement, private security, or civilian course. It's not original, I didn't coin it, I flat out stole it. But because I preach that at EVERY COURSE, I didn't realize, when I finished the article, that was the main point of the article. My bad.
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Old 09-23-2011, 06:48 AM   #49
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The posts on this website reveal wisdom and experience. I'm lucky to have discovered this site. I will do my part to preserve our 2nd amendment rights. Being a resident in Hawaii makes this a challenge. Thank you for your support BigByrd47119.
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Old 09-23-2011, 08:03 AM   #50
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The posts on this website reveal wisdom and experience. I'm lucky to have discovered this site. I will do my part to preserve our 2nd amendment rights. Being a resident in Hawaii makes this a challenge. Thank you for your support BigByrd47119.
There are literally HUNDREDS of years of collective experience here.

I'm glad you found this place, too!
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