[knfxda]

Originally Posted by usmcprofessional

so again, following logic, the .22 would be the best choice. it holds the most rounds and it is the easiest to control. and following the other guy its cheap. not to mention .22 pistols can be fired almost rapid without that much kickback. if we want to discuss shot placement and blood loss potential than more is better, and the control over the more would make the most sense right? to me the .22 is the best choice for those areas.

You're missing or ignoring the point of his argument. The point being that (wounding potential of each bullet) X (# of bullets that can be fired in a given period of time) X (likelihood of the bullet hitting it's intended point of impact) is greater for the 9mm when compared to the .40. He feels this is true because of how close the wounding potential is between the the calibers. The second two factors for the9 outweigh the first factor for the 40.

However, I don't think that the argument applies when comparing a .22 to a 9 mm. You are omitting the first factor. The second 2 factors in favor of the .22 are not enough to trump the 9's advantage in the 1st.

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[Tackleberry1]

That settles it!

I'm buying Kel Tec's new 30 round .22 Mag Auto Pistol.

I can trade all my 9mm's, .40's, and .45's for enough 22 Mag ammo to keep me shooting for the next 40 years!

TACK

[usmcprofessional]

Originally Posted by knfxda

You're missing or ignoring the point of his argument. The point being that (wounding potential of each bullet) X (# of bullets that can be fired in a given period of time) X (likelihood of the bullet hitting it's intended point of impact) is greater for the 9mm when compared to the .40. He feels this is true because of how close the wounding potential is between the the calibers. The second two factors for the9 outweigh the first factor for the 40.

However, I don't think that the argument applies when comparing a .22 to a 9 mm. You are omitting the first factor. The second 2 factors in favor of the .22 are not enough to trump the 9's advantage in the 1st.

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no i got the point of the author. im just playing devils advocate. im just applying the logic to a different pistol. but to fill in the blanks.(.22s -according to practically everyone on this website- are ungodly lethal) X (.22 pistols hold past 20 rounds, more than other handguns, with better control) X (.22s are very accurate so more rounds on intended target or into target.) im not arguing that the 9 isnt or is better than the 40 im just trying to point out that by the ideas presented it can be argued that the .22 would be most favorable.

personally i dont give a sh*t what people discuss between a 9 or 40. i carry a 1911 so i dont need to argue a damn thing.

[JonM]

ok who is rob pincus and why should i care??

my wife uses a 380 and will be using an xdm in 9mm because she can use them for prolonged practice with little fatigue. she also shoots them well center mass repeated hits. she controls them better than a 45acp. cost factor is not an issue for SD.

me, i use a 45acp and sometimes 380acp. i like 1911s, sigs, XDs.

if your really worried about costs start reloading. i roll out 45acp ammo cheaper than buying 9mm.

Originally Posted by hydrashok

So.... having a 9mm is better because of the ECONOMY of it????

I refuse to make my SELF DEFENSE selection based, primarily, on COST!

+1!!

[knfxda]

Originally Posted by JonM

If your really worried about costs start reloading. i roll out 45acp ammo cheaper than buying 9mm.

Your "savings" is a false economy. It assumes that your time isn't worth any thing. I pay $0.20/round for 9mm. How much less could you be rolling your own .45s for? And how much time and effort does it take?

*Note, I am not knocking reloading. I wish I had that skill and may one day decide to develop it.

And the economic point wasn't about how much the 1-2 dozen defense rounds you have loaded in your gun cost, it was about the larger cost if running thousands if rounds in practicing with your SD weapon.

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[knfxda]

I should add that I don't run cheap Russian steel ammo. So I know the are better prices, but at a quality level that I personally don't care for.

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[knfxda]

Originally Posted by usmcprofessional

no i got the point of the author. im just playing devils advocate. im just applying the logic to a different pistol. but to fill in the blanks.(.22s -according to practically everyone on this website- are ungodly lethal) X (.22 pistols hold past 20 rounds, more than other handguns, with better control) X (.22s are very accurate so more rounds on intended target or into target.) im not arguing that the 9 isnt or is better than the 40 im just trying to point out that by the ideas presented it can be argued that the .22 would be most favorable.

personally i dont give a sh*t what people discuss between a 9 or 40. i carry a 1911 so i dont need to argue a damn thing.

Yeah but you're misapplying his logic by using the deadliness of the 22 in a way that even comes close to the 9 mm. His logic, applied properly would conclude that the 9 would trump the 22.

Personally, I just think everyone should carry what works for them. That is the best caliber.

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[JonM]

dont take this for bashing you that isnt my intent.

i enjoy loading my own ammo just as much as shooting it. but its not hard to do. just a little attention to detail.

45acp reloads is about the same as brass cased cheap factory. i can make .11$~ a round for 115 grn fmj 9mm. what i produce is better than factory. if i checked the size of each case i can make my loads 100% reliable for an extra 25 minutes of effort. but tossing in an unknown overlong case is good for practicing those stoppage drills

straight wall pistol is very easy. if i didnt reload i would maybe be able to fire 200 rounds month as opposed to 500 of 45acp. i also load for several different rifles 556, 308, 30-06, and more than a few others.

i can crank out nearly 1000 an hour on the dillon 650 so half hourish to load 500 rounds saves me 70-80$ on even the cheap steel cased stuff. half hour of time at the bench doing something i enjoy is worth my time. local shop here sells berry plated bullets for the 45 for 69$ per 500 last time i bought a box. tulammo cheap steel cased is ~180$ per 500. my cost is ~100$ per 500 reloaded. 1 pound of powder loads about 815-820 rounds depending on how clumsy i am 500 primers brings the total cost to about .20$ a round. 45acp is about .36$ a pop for the cheapest factory

i still beat the cheapest 9mm by about 15$ per 500.

for my wife's shooting her 9mm will cost about 115$ per 1000 reloaded. i dont think your going to get anywhere near that for factory ammo of any sort.

if i buy tulammo im spending an extra 80$ to pay someone else to load whats for me a half hour of making ammo. not much of a deal or a good expenditure of labor.

reloading lets you shoot more for the money. it almost doubles the ammo i can shoot for the same cost.

it adds up to more rounds downrange. i dont think its a false economy. ill even cut the savings in half to 40$ for a half hour. thats more than i make at work.

if i amortorize it out over the years and spend back the savings into more loading gear or guns i could fill my entire house with a dillon xl650 for ech caliber i shoot.

anyone who is serious about self defense training should seriously consider shifting the funds for that next firearm to a progressive loading machine and accessories of some sort.

[knfxda]

If anything you're making me want to accelerate my plans to reload one day!

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[JonM]

Originally Posted by knfxda

If anything you're making me want to accelerate my plans to reload one day!

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If you dont mind shooting unplated lead its even cheaper. Somewhere down around .05$ a round for 45acp if you make your own lead cast bullets. You can also skim some $$ off using lighter bullets and lighter charges. Personally my line is drawn atm of casting my own. Im just not comfy with the idea of molten lead and lead fumes if it gets too hot and boils.

Hell it took me nearly a year to try my muzzleloader... im just very cautious about dangerous safety stuff with firearms