What was the best training you've had and why? - Page 3
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:42 PM   #21
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Some of the best instruction I got was from my old man from the first day I got my first BB gun and was allowed to shoot beer cans off a saw horse.

Later in life I was in NRA Tyro and later metal silhouette big bore & small bore and target competitions. Lots of instruction, going over the finer points of shooting competition. Which is much like the difference of studying fencing and studying swinging a really large sword with the attempt to kill. Pomp and Circumstance versus real world practicality.

When I got older I became more interested in actual shooting scenarios so I made a pilgrimage to Thunder Ranch. Supposedly the best at the time. I still remember their ad "My mommy took us to Thunder Ranch because she doesn't want us to be food". I was entertained, but I do not think this was some of the best training I have ever had, that is for sure. Group size was too big, and as stated above, it took the instructors time to get from person to person to assess, and even then they didn't change much.

A couple of years back I was given a gift to go to Valhalla and train with Rob Pincus and one of his trainers, one on one, in their state of the art, Hollywood designed kill house. For 4 hours, I had one on one instruction and I was taught some amazing things that I still practice.

By far and away the best training I ever had that was paid training was from Rob and his staff at Valhalla.

Rob has sense branched out, he is a member here and stops by on occasion, but if you can catch him and his group when they travel, I.C.E. Training | Home would be well worth it in my opinion.

JD

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Old 02-09-2010, 06:56 PM   #22
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Guys-
I learned a little from each security instructor I had.

Instructor #1 was a retired US Army Major, who had taught soldiers to use the 1911 .45 and M-16. He warned us not to make a student angry, because a trainee had once turned on him and emptied a magazine of .223 on rock 'n roll. The instructor saw it coming and flattened himself out on his elevated concrete platform as bullets chewed at the concrete.

The same instructor cautioned us to keep the muzzle pointed downrange, recounting how a Colonel once turned around with a .45, pointing it in the instructor's face and muttering, " It jammed ". It turned out that the Colonel was not pressing hard enough on the trigger.

This man warned against the tendency to make the front sight wander right and left, deciding that the next time it comes around, it is gonna go : a sure way to jerk the trigger.
If a shooter was not putting enough holes in the target, this instructor would help him by, without warning, reaching over the student's shoulder and firing six shots into the student's target. " Looks like you need some more holes in there ", he'd comment.

Instructor #2 was Arif Mosrie of Associated Security Training in Maryland. He is a retired police Captain with three wins in three gunfights. Mosrie said that in most cases, replacing the revolver with the high-capacity 9mm had only given the police more rounds to miss with.
Mosrie once held a gun in the air and lectured, " This is not a 'problem solver '. This is a 'problem causer ", leading in to an examination of the legal troubles that follow the use of deadly force.

Instructor #3 was Mosrie's partner, now deceased, Bill Merritt, also a retired police Captain. Merritt taught tactics. He told the story a jewelry store robbery, to which he responded. As he drove toward the store, Merritt saw a store security guard running toward him. He pulled over and the guard excitedly yelled, " They went that way ! ".
Merritt then noticed that the guard, who had been chasing three armed robbers had no gun. The guard simply had not realized the risk he was taking.
Merritt addressed the guard, " You ain't got a gun ! What you gon' do if you catch 'em ? "
The guard turned pale.

Those are three that I learned from...

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Old 02-16-2010, 12:37 AM   #23
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Army training as a Infantryman was the best until I trained at Blackwater. Blackwater was by far the best training I will ever have.

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Old 02-17-2010, 03:45 AM   #24
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Executive Protection & Anti Terrorism training with the FBI and Secret Service. After completion I had the opportunity to work with the Secret Service securing areas and guarding all the political figures at the 1980 GOP Presidential Convention in Detroit.

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Old 02-17-2010, 12:39 PM   #25
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Car54 what precinct/neighborhood/district did you work out of?

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Old 02-17-2010, 02:30 PM   #26
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I Was with My NSCC Squadren At Camp Ripley and we had a Guy from a PMC come in and teach us basic room clearing principles.

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Old 02-17-2010, 02:53 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigGambler View Post
Car54 what precinct/neighborhood/district did you work out of?
!3th Pct, Harbormaster, Headquarters Surveillance, Gang Squad. started Jan. '72. You?
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Old 02-17-2010, 03:32 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
!3th Pct, Harbormaster, Headquarters Surveillance, Gang Squad. started Jan. '72. You?
Oh nice you were right on the Woodward crazy area! I am not an officer, I shot with a few DPD officers at my gun club, his name is Mike and his wife was Maureen I belive, haven't seen him in a long time. I remember him telling me about a neighborhood riot (not the 67 riots) when they were riding 4 to a car. You guys definatley had some crazy **** going on in the 70's and 80's and I have learned Never Ever to Mess with a Detroit Cop! I travel through different areas of Detroit regularly for work and most people in this country would not beleive some of the stuff I've seen. Lost a couple of friends to the Brightmore area also, danm shame!
When I got out of High School I went to work down at a cabinet shop and the Fenkel/Grandriver/Greenfield Area. For a kid from Oakland County that was quite and education. I proceeded to move and work down at Wyoming and Lyndon Area, by this time I was much older and wiser. You have my utmost respect for doing what you did and I thank you for that!

Oh my Grandfather was a Detroit Officer back in the 20's thru the 50's, see picture below



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Old 03-14-2010, 08:24 AM   #29
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I'm a booster of Army training. Using your weapon is only one factor, albeit a key one. The Army breaks combat training into five separate stages:
1.) Individual - Marksmanship mainly, but includes maintenance, ballistic theory (like what IS "battlesight zero"?), technical info (max effective range, etc) and more.
2.) Crew - This mainly applies to crew-served weapons or vehicles but can also apply to a two-man rush where one man provides cover while the other does a three second "rush", then they exchange roles.
3.) Team - This could be multiple vehicles but would also apply to one FIRE TEAM in Squad providing a "base of fire" while the other FIRE TEAM maneuvers to the objective.
4.) Combined Arms - Infantry, Armor, Artillery, etc,. acting together.
5.) Joint - Army/Navy.AF/Marines acting in unison.

When all these levels come together, there is a valuable tool that I consider essential to getting it all right. That is a system/device known as MILES (Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement System). It's attached to your weapon and a detection system on your uniform and safely simulates the range, effects, etc. of whatever you are firing. Its not precise enough to train marksmanship, so you have to have those skills down pat before you use it. The main benefit of the system is that your "target" is another person that is maneuvering against you and shooting back. The adrenalin flows as you get the "beep-beep" signal of a near miss, or the constant tone indicating you are dead. It allows you to review what you did right and what you did wrong after you are the loser or the winner. Now, as a civilian, I believe that a "center mass" hit is probably good enough. But I also think that the lessons I learned with MILES will keep me alive if and when I need them.

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Old 03-14-2010, 12:12 PM   #30
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I would be interested to find some training on tactical handgun shooting in my area (civilian sector). I have had both the Navy and Army weapons and tactical training, Security Reactionary Force Advanced, room clearing, MILES gear etc. and also some good stuff from some infantry guys while I was deployed to OEF never had formal civilian training though besides some advice at the range.

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