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Old 12-22-2013, 02:25 PM   #21
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For crying out loud! Stop dismissing information because someone might make money of it. What do you do to "part" people of their hard earned money? Does that mean we get to ignore everything you do or say that you get paid for?

Ridiculous. I am so sick of that crap.
now now, be a good Mod and keep your head about you


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Old 12-22-2013, 06:02 PM   #22
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For crying out loud! Stop dismissing information because someone might make money of it. What do you do to "part" people of their hard earned money? Does that mean we get to ignore everything you do or say that you get paid for?

Ridiculous. I am so sick of that crap.
Right here in this forum people dismiss things I have said or call BS on it. Yet I have used these techniques to finish large jobs or to eliminate complaints from customers. I pay them little mind at all. All I can do is dispense what I know to be true. If people are close minded I can not fix that. Professional instructors should expect a lot more criticism than the average person and have plausible answers to any criticism that comes their way. If you don't like what they have to say you don't have to spend a dime at their business.


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Old 12-22-2013, 06:16 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ScottA View Post
For crying out loud! Stop dismissing information because someone might make money of it. What do you do to "part" people of their hard earned money? Does that mean we get to ignore everything you do or say that you get paid for?

Ridiculous. I am so sick of that crap.
Well, I was originally dismissing it because it was terrible information, but that didn't seem to go over well. When I saw an easy way out, I took it. I certainly didn't mean to upset you.
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Old 12-22-2013, 06:18 PM   #24
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sometimes a person can be their own worst enemy when they post nonsense they fail to support with any proof or facts. then they get all butthurt if someone calls them on it and asks for proof or facts to back up those statements. credibility is usually lost in this case.

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Old 12-22-2013, 06:28 PM   #25
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I can also see from an instructors standpoint where this may apply when teaching new shooters.

A brand new shooter should have realistic expectations and goals. As they progress, of course their goals should be increasing in difficulty or in precision, or precision within a time frame.

If I run a new drill on multiple targets I may do it in a couple different phases, one for precision regardless of time, followed by decreasing my time and trying to maintain precision. Other folks may go for time, and work on increasing precision. Hits anywhere on a silhouette may be a good starting point if that is the method being used.

I started out shooting as a precision exercise, doing riffite rifle and pistol, bullseye shooting, so precision is the natural starting place for ME. I have friends whose first shooting exposure was in multi-gun practical matches, where fast hits were their first goal.

I do think having goals is important and mediocrity is not something to strive for ultimately. But short term, mid term and long term goals should be a part of that.

Not everyone will have the same long term goal. Some folks will want to be able to keep hits inside a 10" circle at 200 yds is what a hunter wants. A police sharp shooter may be only able to accept a standard of 2" or less at the same distance.

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Old 12-22-2013, 10:47 PM   #26
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If all of your practice is bracing up and shooting a 2" group you are not preparing for a self defense situation. Most of your practice should involve walking and shooting. If you can keep every shot inside the nine ring you are doing good. After all if someone is shooting at you very few have the composure to brace up and shoot back. I might brace up if I am behind something substantial, otherwise I am going to be on the move. Most of us here are going to do the same thing.

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Old 01-03-2014, 04:58 AM   #27
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Default Yeah, it depends...

The speaker in the video has a good point. I have to agree with whoever said he was making it too complicated. And he was passing over some of the concept.

Accuracy is a standard applicable primarily to a specific problem, and secondarily to a weapon or shooter.

F'rinstance, the ability to defend against a human attacker requires a hit within about a six inch circle, generally centered high on the chest. At three feet, the problem is smaller in that a greater mis-alignment in aim is allowed than at twelve feet (or 300 yards). The requirement to score well is also defined by accuracy, be it precision rifle, pistol or shotgun. Also the exact shooting 'game' must be considered; International Rapid Fire has different requirements than Free Pistol.

It can be applied to a firearm. "This" pistol (this particular example, not the model) will not mechanically fire with sufficient precision to meet the requirements of [enter specific discipline here]. An example of this is a 'as issued' Government pistol, either the old M1911A1 or the M9. Neither pistol were match grade Bullseye pistols as issued, but after 'accurizing', either will shoot amazingly small groups with a trained marksman. However, as issued, the accuracy is suitable for self-defense use.

As an advancing shooter - and all of us desire to 'advance', do we not? - one expects a certain level of competence in marksmanship after 'X' hours of instruction and practice, and a higher level after twice that long.

The video was demonstrating 'eight ring' accuracy (on the Prehl or B27 target) is sufficient for self-defense. The accuracy level is either there or not; but an X-ring hit is not 'greater' than an eight-ring hit.

I'll disagree with one of the posters on this thread. When shots are being fired at one, the standard of accuracy is not stricter; the same 'shot in the 8 ring' will suffice. However, it will be more difficult to keep a clear head and make the shot.

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Old 01-03-2014, 12:59 PM   #28
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My wife and I shoot at 2" spinner targets at 30 yards with our red dot equipped 22 lr carbines mostly from a standing position. It is fun and good practice. You can move around and take other positions but no bench or artificial support. We will sometimes try it with our 22lr target pistols. The carbines are a lot easier. I dont like steel any closer than 25 to 30 yards even though they are spinners and we are only using 22lr.
Shooting a 7 yards rapid fire with a pistol my goal is to keep the group within 5" and centered. I can do this better with a 9mm in a light (28 oz or less) carry gun. Heavier calibers slow me down too much. I can do it with a heavier gun in a larger caliber but those tend to get left at home.

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Old 01-03-2014, 01:06 PM   #29
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accuracy = venison meatballs and ziti!

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Old 01-03-2014, 03:54 PM   #30
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accuracy = venison meatballs and ziti!
Not to mention, back straps, tender loins, steaks, and roasts!!!


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