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Weight of suppressor affecting muscle memory and reflexes?


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Old 10-27-2009, 04:56 AM   #11
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You want to use a suppressor for HD? Home Defense?

What on earth for?

If I have to use my gun for defense in my home, God forbid, I would want the whole damn neighborhood to hear the shots and call the cops. If I were wounded, again God forbid, I would want the shots heard so that if I wasn't already dead I might have a fighting chance and that the intruder wouldn't have a chance.

I'll take a small bit of hearing loss for some peace of mind. Practice at the range with your muffs, but let them puppies ring loud and clear if you should, for the last time God forbid, have to use that force at home.
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Old 10-27-2009, 01:15 PM   #12
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From outside, a pistol fired inside the house will sound like someone slammed a door. I know a guy who had a .45acp Accidental Discharge in the living room, and his wife in the bedroom thought he just dropped something on the floor. Nobody is going to call the cops. However, my hearing will be pretty much useless, as well as any nearby family members. Not only are those further distractions from my focus, degrading my ability to respond to the situation, but it would prevent me from hearing his partner breaking into a second window or bumping into a wall in the dark kitchen.
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Old 10-27-2009, 06:36 PM   #13
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Question: How loud is it while suppressor is on. Do you have a db reading before and after? I does it seem half as loud or how would you describe it.
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:54 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Lindenwood View Post
From outside, a pistol fired inside the house will sound like someone slammed a door.
Must not know my neighbors...

And from my experience, a 12-gauge makes a bit more noise than a pistol.

My point being still this...whats the point of a suppressed HD weapon?


fixed my mistake ^ above ^. Meant to say suppressed, and typed 'silenced' instead.
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:56 PM   #15
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Question: How loud is it while suppressor is on. Do you have a db reading before and after? I does it seem half as loud or how would you describe it.
I don't have DB numbers to give you or experience to back it up, but from my knowledge a suppressor is designed for shooting without ear protection. So, basically, it is no longer loud enough to damage your hearing.

You still hear the workings of the gun, but no 'boom' associated with the powder burning and gasses escaping.
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:14 PM   #16
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Let's clear up a few things. First off:

There is no such thing as a "silencer" like you see in the movies. There is no thread on black can that takes your thunder magnum and turns it into a careless whisper.

Forget that idea all together.

The term, is a "Suppressor", because you are suppressing the round to below the speed of sound and suppressing the hot gas that is leaving the barrel.

The way a Suppressor works is in conjunction with a SUB-SONIC round of ammunition. You don't want the bullet to ever reach the speed of sound ( about 1100 feet per second ) because them it will create that telltale "CRACK!" that you hear.

However, that is only part of the problem, because the super heated gas that comes from the gunpowder also needs to be cooled before it is allowed out to mix with the room temperature air. That is where the Supressor comes in.

Basically, what you are doing, is adding a bunch of branches off the barrel for the gas to roam around in, cool down, and flow out the barrel slower and cooler than normal.

Think about a long hotel hallway. You have a hallway with 20 doors on each side, the rooms, and there is a window at one end and an elevator at the other.

The elevator shaft is like the magazine feeding a bullet up into the chamber - which is you in the elevator.

Now, imagine the second the doors open, the full force of a Hurricane is set off behind you and propels you down the hallway with all it's might.

That would be what it's like with a bullet in a barrel ( minus the rifling of course ).

Now, take that same scenario and open ALL the doors in the hallway.

As you are thrust from the elevator, the pressure behind you subsides as you pass each room, because the gale force wind is also swirling around in each hotel room, so the overall force behind you is lessened.

This is what is happening with a Suppressor - there are chambers that divert the gas, drawing pressure away from the bullet, lessening it's speed, and allowing the gas to cool before it finds it's way out the bore.

A "silenced" handgun of any caliber size, is still going to make racket when you fire it. But, it's a question of "disguising" the sound to make people think it's something else.

For instance, I happen to know that a single shot, from a sub-sonic .556 round, from a Suppressed AR, sounds pretty damn close to the sound of a guy using an electric nail gun to build a fence.

It's acoustic camoflauge - not the ability to hide like a Ninja.

Now, you have to know the laws in your area.

For example: In Washington State, where I reside, it is perfectly legal for me to PURCHASE a Suppressor once I have obtained the correct paperwork from the feds.

HOWEVER - If I ever get caught USING said suppressor, I am going straight to jail, do not pass go, do get soap on a rope.

That is correct. I can own, but never fire, a suppressor in this state.

Now, why, anyone would want to do any type fo defense work in a HD basis with a suppressor on is COMPLETELY beyond me. Slowing a round down to below 1100fps, INTENTIONALLY, is going to reduce penetration of that round. Why you would want to do LESS damage to a bad guy just doesn't compute....

On the offensive side, it makes total sense, but it's not legal, and that is all we will discuss here on these boards....

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Old 10-27-2009, 09:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
The term, is a "Suppressor",
Meant to type suppressor, ended up being silencer. My mistake, fixed my post above.
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:41 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by falseharmonix View Post
Meant to type suppressor, ended up being silencer. My mistake, fixed my post above.
Wasn't singling anyone out - just pointing out the facts for the open forum brother...

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Old 10-28-2009, 01:35 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
The term, is a "Suppressor", because you are suppressing the round to below the speed of sound and suppressing the hot gas that is leaving the barrel.
No standard pistol suppressor reduces bullet velocity by any significant amount. In fact, most increase the velocity by a few FPS. It is called "Free bore Boost." It is only technically termed "suppressor" because it only "suppresses" the report, rather than completely "silencing" it. However, the ATF knows them as a "Silencer," so it is not an incorrect term in standard usage.

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Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
The way a Suppressor works is in conjunction with a SUB-SONIC round of ammunition. You don't want the bullet to ever reach the speed of sound ( about 1100 feet per second ) because then it will create that telltale "CRACK!" that you hear.
True, but even the report of a rifle-caliber weapon with rounds greatly exceeding the sound barrier can be brought down to hearing-safe levels. Discharging a short-barrel AR15 (.223) inside a vehicle or small room without a suppressor or hearing protection will take your hearing out at least for the rest of the fight, if not for a good while after that while it heals. A decent suppressor would make it quite tolerable, actually.

[QUOTE=Dillinger;178954]
A "silenced" handgun of any caliber size, is still going to make racket when you fire it. But, it's a question of "disguising" the sound to make people think it's something else.

For instance, I happen to know that a single shot, from a sub-sonic .556 round, from a Suppressed AR, sounds pretty damn close to the sound of a guy using an electric nail gun to build a fence.[quote]
That is true. But for HD I'm not trying to hide that I'm shooting, only trying to give myself the tactical advantage of 100% vision and hearing.

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Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
Now, why, anyone would want to do any type fo defense work in a HD basis with a suppressor on is COMPLETELY beyond me.
See my previous post.

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Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
Slowing a round down to below 1100fps, INTENTIONALLY, is going to reduce penetration of that round. Why you would want to do LESS damage to a bad guy just doesn't compute....
See above. Also know that most 147gr 9mm loads (the most effective common 9mm bullet weight) do NOT reach supersonic velocities from a pistol barrel.
66564 - 9mm Luger Remington Express Handgun Cartridge, 147-Grain Jacketed Hollow Point, Subsonic, 990 fps, 50 Rounds per Box, 10 Boxes per Case
33979 - 9mm Luger Fiocchi Handgun Cartridge, 147-Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Bullet, 1050 fps, 50 Rounds per Box



But, I'm not trying to argue whether or not to get a suppressor, or whether or not to use a pistol or shotgun, or whatever. I only wonder if training with the extra weight (affecting swingability) and significantly reduced recoil would negatively affect my reflexive shooting without the suppressor.

*edit*

Some people on SilencerTalk mention that the significant reduction of recoil impulse will definitely make a difference in rapid firing (double- and triple-taps, for example). It does make sense that if I get used to .5 second double taps with a 1lb suppressor mounted on a 2lb handgun, that might cause the second shot to go over the BG's shoulder if I don't consciously compensate during an SD encounter without the suppressor (and I am expecting to be acting completely on reflexes in such a situation).

Last edited by Lindenwood; 10-28-2009 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 10-28-2009, 04:11 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindenwood View Post
*edit*

Some people on SilencerTalk mention that the significant reduction of recoil impulse will definitely make a difference in rapid firing (double- and triple-taps, for example). It does make sense that if I get used to .5 second double taps with a 1lb suppressor mounted on a 2lb handgun, that might cause the second shot to go over the BG's shoulder if I don't consciously compensate during an SD encounter without the suppressor (and I am expecting to be acting completely on reflexes in such a situation).
Well, I guess I forgot to mention that for a 9mm handgun, you can obtain various weights and brands of suppressors, wet and dry, ranging from 5.6 to 8.5 ounces.

You are not going to shoot over a BG's head or shoulder until after you have shot him at least twice for overcompensating. If you are confronted with a life-threatening encounter and you shoot in self-defense, your first action is to draw, point, and shoot. If you draw to belly shoot, to center mass, shoot and follow upward; with more shots moving toward the neck and head. You will be able to correct any over lift upward, as well as the muzzle blast and small recoil, and you sure as hell will have enough rounds with a 9mm.

This is why I emphasize practice, practice, more practice and know your weapon.

This memory training is no different than being proficient with shooting 2 or more different handguns and carrying them at different times for CC, as I sometimes do. Again, either you can shoot well or you can't.

Though you bring up a valid point about shooting a non-suppressed handgun in a closed room and the discharge blast may cause temporary loss of hearing, when and if you are forced to defend yourself or your loved ones, in the heat of the moment, with adrenalin pumping and your heart racing, and your in the "zone," it all happens so fast (trust me) you will hardly even notice the sounds of them shots.

P.S. What does Maj. Malfunction (Bryon) say over at Silencertalk, on this very subject?

He is an Oklahoma Munitions Dealer selling Class III, NFA items.


Jack
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Last edited by IGETEVEN; 10-28-2009 at 03:05 PM. Reason: spelling and additional question
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