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Old 08-10-2007, 01:32 AM   #21
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you are right right about everything maybe if you hear it from someone you will shut up lol. apparently the training ive received in moyock and at the sig academy was all for nothing, and the 15 years of self defense training and knife and weapons training was pointless.
If that's what they are training you, they are doing you a disservice. Look into some of Suarez's training classes, specifically the Close Quarters stuff, or Andy Stanford of OPS. Your gun isn't useless in close range as has been beaten into peoples heads from the days of Cooper.

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next time ill do as you seem to think would be the right thing and just hand the guy my gun. it actually would probably work to my benefit because the distraction of handing him my weapon would allow me to break his stupid little neck while he was distracted.
Utilizing your handgun at contact distances is not as mysterious as you seem to think. Above, you mentioned that you have "...15 years of self defense training and knife and weapons training..." All I'm advocating is to try to combine the self-defense training and the weapons training. Learn your body-reference points and practice our retention.

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let it go man, i know you are pretty, get me a cup of coffee or just shut up lol. lets just agree to disagree, you use what you think is effective and i use what i know is effective. whatever right. jesus
Thanks for the compliment, but I don't swing that way. If you do, good for you. I'm morbidly curious, did they teach you, at any of your training classes, about firing from retention, or are you a dyed in the wool proponent of the "Modern Technique?"


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Old 08-10-2007, 01:38 AM   #22
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actually i am just a little curious as to what you actually shoot at and what distances you are shooting at with your pistol. it might help to make a little more sense of why you are so confrontational and overemotional and angry over such an insignificant topic such as this?
I shoot a GLOCK 19, from ranges of about 2 feet to about 25 yards. My accuracy at close range (2 feet to 3 yards) is about 6". That is all that matters to me at that range. From 3 yards to about 10 yards, I regularly shoot 2" dots. Beyond that, I go back to about 6" groups, but I don't really care about that range as I don't see much reason to have to defend myself beyond 30 feet. If the bad guy is that far away, I'll take cover and wait for his dumb ass to come to me.

I also shoot competitively, at least once a month.


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Old 08-10-2007, 05:54 AM   #23
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yea that was what i figured you are shooting static targets at close range, i had to shoot at 75 ft accurately with a pistol which personally i find ridiculous, because as you said, if they are further than 25 ft you take cover and wait or walk away, or as i usually say, if they are past the 30 to 40 ft mark, i go for my rifle, but the qualification is at 75ft with 30 rounds, which let me tell is pretty darn tricky, i would never engage at that range, and shooting static from that point sucks more than i can even express. its daunting. normally, i utilize a delta range so i can fire on multiple targets with both my primary weapon, a rifle and a backup from different angles while approaching and seeking cover. i dont find any practicality in shooting accurately at a static target, you draw a gun on someone, odds are very great that they wont stick around long enough for you to pull the trigger, someone draws a gun on you, hopefully, you wouldnt do the same. shooting while moving i feel gets you more comfortable and more accurate, anyone can shoot fairly reasonably while standing still from 6 to 25 ft away. and the worst part is you are shooting at a flat target, its 1 dimensional, where a human target is three dimensional, no one ever factors in the points of entrance that cannot be factored in on a 1 dimensional target. the banter back and forth with you was fun, hopefully it didnt get you too hot under the collar, that sort of emotion is useless and pointless, so no hard feelings, and no i dont swing that way, love women, always have, but the the psychological warfare sometimes gets people to stop for a second because they werent expecting it.

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Old 08-10-2007, 05:58 AM   #24
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forgot to add the fact that i am usually at the range three to four days a week for about an hour or two, and spend about ten to sixteen hours there on the weekends, not being married or having kids makes that easy, otherwise who knows where i would be probably the zoo, or some pilates crap. i normally go through about 600 rounds each time i shoot, just depends on the finances, the LEO/military discounts help, but it still adds up at the end of the month, the 556 killed me financially, after all the accessories i was in it quite a bit.

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Old 08-12-2007, 09:35 PM   #25
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yea that was what i figured you are shooting static targets at close range,
Where did I say that? I only gave you the distances. And by shooting competitively, I mean IDPA or IPSC rules. There is nothing static about those.

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i had to shoot at 75 ft accurately with a pistol which personally i find ridiculous, because as you said, if they are further than 25 ft you take cover and wait or walk away, or as i usually say, if they are past the 30 to 40 ft mark, i go for my rifle, but the qualification is at 75ft with 30 rounds, which let me tell is pretty darn tricky, i would never engage at that range, and shooting static from that point sucks more than i can even express. its daunting.
But it can be needed for "cops" like yourself. Not being a cop, there is little need for me to take a shot at that distance.

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normally, i utilize a delta range so i can fire on multiple targets with both my primary weapon, a rifle and a backup from different angles while approaching and seeking cover.
What, pray tell, is a "delta range?"

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i dont find any practicality in shooting accurately at a static target, you draw a gun on someone, odds are very great that they wont stick around long enough for you to pull the trigger, someone draws a gun on you, hopefully, you wouldnt do the same. shooting while moving i feel gets you more comfortable and more accurate, anyone can shoot fairly reasonably while standing still from 6 to 25 ft away.
Well, your statements are continuing to cast aspersions as to the creds you are claiming. Most people who shoot seriously consider fundamentals more important than any other skill. By shooting at a static target, one can concentrate on one's trigger pull, the perfect sight picture, and absolute follow through. By continuing to practice these, under stress, one's muscle memory will take over and you will be able to perform these actions. However, training your muscles to do this is not as simple as doing it once. I was taught that to get everything down perfect, you should practice it properly 1,000 times. That means 1,000 perfect hits in a row.

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and the worst part is you are shooting at a flat target, its 1 dimensional, where a human target is three dimensional, no one ever factors in the points of entrance that cannot be factored in on a 1 dimensional target.
What do you suggest, oh wise guru of tactical shooting, one uses instead?


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forgot to add the fact that i am usually at the range three to four days a week for about an hour or two, and spend about ten to sixteen hours there on the weekends, not being married or having kids makes that easy, otherwise who knows where i would be probably the zoo, or some pilates crap. i normally go through about 600 rounds each time i shoot, just depends on the finances, the LEO/military discounts help, but it still adds up at the end of the month, the 556 killed me financially, after all the accessories i was in it quite a bit.
So you are going through 3,000 rounds a week? That's impressive. I don't think I could afford that. I know people who are getting ammo at dealer cost, and they can't afford to go through that much. How much are you spending? And since you through down the gauntlet, what ranges are you regularly practicing at, and what sort of groups are you getting?
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:36 PM   #26
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Default Ultimate Non-Firearm Backup Weapon

My wife made me quit doing this a few years ago. She was afraid of: 1-missing our flight, or 2- having me hauled away in restraints.

After successfully passing through airport screening machines, I would often engage one of the screeners in casual conversation about the weapons missed. I'd demonstrate simple weapons like shoes, ball-point pens, tightly rolled magazines (the reading kind), plastic credit cards capable of holding a very sharp edge, ditto-keys & sharp air-crew wings, heavy objects onboard the aircraft, like fire extinguishers, etc.

Having changed my behavior vis-à-vis airports, we were flying out of Seattle to attend her father's funeral, and she had packed one of his beloved garden figurines in her carry-on luggage. It seems the figurine had a lot of latent chemicals embedded because of years of exposure to fertilizers. It set off the explosives detector. She got a lot of attention and the rest of our party laughed our heads off. We made our flight.

Anything can be used as a weapon. Be creative.
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Old 08-15-2007, 11:29 PM   #27
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What do you guys think is the ultimate non-firearm backup weapon?


Pepper spray or stun gun
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Old 10-23-2007, 02:41 PM   #28
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A non-firearm back up would have to be a good well trained protection dog. I do plan to own one in the near future. I well trained protection dog will take orders from your family only and be able to either help you make a get a way or even take out an attacker.

Mr. Crack Head that weighs in at 150# is no match for a GSD or Malinios or a Dutch Shepard. I was a Vet tech in the army for a few years and took care of 30+ MWD (Military Working Dogs) having spent some time on the recieving end of a 110# GSD with a bad attitude is not my idea of fun. I would get in the attack suite every time I did a kennel inspection and have one of the dogs do bite work on me. That is where I meet Butel a 2 year old Dutch Shepard that was kin to superman I have never seen a dog fly 15" threw the air and knock over a 220# man before like he did. One unit had a malinios Tasha that had a nasty habbit of peforming a nice leg sweep when she would go for a bite. It put one handler in the hospital with a concussion she by the way had 4 stainless steel K-9 teeth. talk about imatadition seeing four shinning silver teeth stairing at you.

If I can find them I will scan and post some pictures of my one dog attack.

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Old 05-08-2008, 10:04 PM   #29
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It would most definitely depend on your pacticular situation that you are involved in at the time it is happening that is a loaded question



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