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Old 12-17-2011, 02:31 PM   #21
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Yes I have an NRA Range Safety Officer certificate ( 2 day course about 12 hours total ) and I attended ( and graduated from ) the NRA Range Design, Develpoment and Management 5 day intensive course in Buffalo last year- - - - Great course, worth every penny spent and every minute spent as well.

My range is small and growing as I get funds as I'm not willing to borrow money in this economy!

Everyone who works at my range ( even if they are just mowing grass ) has an NRA Range Safety Officer certificate or they will not be hired!

With proper training and care you can be safe but if you don't know of the problem you can put yourself at risk. I have been to a range with the shooting line indoors shooting out the windows - - - people think all the lead goes out the window but they forget the lead potassinate from the primer and they have pots of chilli and drinks sitting out and smoking going on. There were at least 6 to 8 children under age 10 running all about, not handling guns but eating and drinking, that lead poisioning will last their lifetime!

I went to the head person and was told they had been doing it this way for years and they are a private club and as such believe they do not fall under regulation.

I feel the least of their concerns should be compliance - - I wonder how the children will be affected for the rest of their lives!

I left the range and will not go back!
You wouldnt happen to have some links to some facts on this subject would you??

Not trying to start a pissing match here, i am just looking for info to enlighten myself. Never one to take a person at their word without researching it myself or doing "due diligence"

Being big into working with kids getting them started w/ safety and marksmanship, and with a wife and daughter, i think it prudent to brush up on these dangers you cite.
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:20 PM   #22
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The osha lead standard is posted at

http://www.goal.org/Documents/nasrcatalog.pdf

You may purchase the info there but if you ( or anyone else ) need further info please PM me and I will help all I can.

I have tried to find more on the NRA website ( and osha ) but I am barely computer literate. I have the hard copy books ( 19 pages just on the dangers of lead on the line ) on hand but feel they are probably available on line I just can't find them.

The NRA book states they developed their 19 pages by going thru the 329 pages at Full Site Search Results

The Center for Disease Control also has standards which are quite comprensive and can be located at CDC - Indoor Firing Ranges - NIOSH Workplace Safety and Health Topic

I hope this helps - - - I am not trying to scare anyone but to inform. If any of you find a link to the 19 pages at NRA please post it for everyone.
This site is farely friendly and has many links to get you to the info.

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Old 12-17-2011, 04:21 PM   #23
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So, gwk4667, are you saying you don't go to the range or go shooting anymore? I'm not sure I'm following you.

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Old 12-17-2011, 04:48 PM   #24
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Absolutely not!

Just go to safely run ranges and if in doubt make sure the people running the range are certified and give them the links I provided so that they can educate themselves.

Shooting is one of the safest sports in the country!

But the reason it is so safe is people (NRA, NSSF ) are constantly vigilant and working to keep it safe and make it safer.

Any child that is young enough to keep putting their hands in their mouth should be barred!

Any adult that cannot follow simple safety rules should be bared!

Can you go the range and abide by the simple rules of No eating, drinking, smoking, putting on lipstick or chapstick! If so you can keep yourself safe from lead poisoning.

Remember anyone can call a "cease fire" on the range if they see something out of line. Any good range safety officer will not be offended if you ask what certification they hold.

A good first video to watch is Introduction to Range Safety and Etiquette - YouTube!

This is by Barry Laws who has a range at Louisville KY made in conjunction with NSSF - - - This is publis domain and both Barry and the NSSF encourage you to keep copies on hand and have all shooters view it at least once a year. I like to have the people view in groups of 5 to 10 and discuss it afterward ( I have had several groups spend an hour or more in discussions and replaying the video )

Remember we all need to keep our sport the safest in the country!

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Old 12-17-2011, 05:01 PM   #25
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fmj,

Now for a professional grandfather that picture of your son on the bench is priceless! Way to go DAD!
I do not think that children are ever too young to start basic weapon and firearms training. When my children were young enough to even know what a gun was we started. Later we had a wooden rifle that my son and two years later my daughter carried to the range when I went. The point was to teach them weapon safety. How to safely remove it from the case, muzzle safety and all. Followed by when each of them were 4-5 with a little rifle like the one in your picture (A Cricket) they began learning with the life rifle. I never have had any serious issues due to starting them early. Then came my grandchildren. I have a few that do not like to hunt because of killing anything but they still love to shoot and that is fine with Gramps!
Good job to all of you who are introducing your sons, daughters, grandchildren and wives to the sport!

03

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Old 12-17-2011, 05:52 PM   #26
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I was 4 the first time I was allowed to hold and shoot a gun, killed my first deer at 9. I was raised, along with all my siblings, to respect guns and was taught as long as I can remember firearms safety, that included if you point it at someone you won't be able to sit for a week. It all depends on the child's maturity and the parents willingness to be a parent.

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Old 12-17-2011, 06:24 PM   #27
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I agree on the aspect of handling a firearm. But lead poisoning is something that can sneak up on you.

As I said first and foremost the child needs to be old enough to keep their hands away from their face and mouth to be around even if they are not handling the firearm.

Also they need both ear plugs and ear muffs at that age. If they are willing to tolerate the ear protection and keep their hands sway from their face GREAT but my 4 year old grand daughter still has her hands at her face to often for me to risk the problems of lead poisoning!

This is something I never knew about until I started taking the classes and CDC studies have changed the way these things are taught as they have found high levels of lead in both bone marrow and blood. How high is the risk that my Grand daughter could have serious problems? I’m not sure but I am not going to take the risk. I am looking forward to the day she can come with me ( and my 10 month old grandson as well ) but it is my duty to protect them from unseen dangers!

My daughter though it was funny in Marine Corp boot camp that most trainees had to be taught to keep their hands off their faces! She assumed all children learned this at an early age!

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Old 12-17-2011, 07:29 PM   #28
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Questions on the subject of lead and shooting...

are these findings mostly at indoor ranges, or were the studies done at both indoor and outdoor?

Something i find interesting after reading this stuff is when i leave the range (outdoor) i am very THIRSTY, have taken to taking a bottle of water with me, or if i forgot i hit the first gas station, gat a bottle of water for me and the boy and wash my hands thoughroly. I also find a "build up", for lack of better term, on my lips.

I shoot jacketed bullets exclusivley.

I am begining to wonder if we shouldnt make a dedicated thread to this subject...good info for ALL parents/grandparents working with their kids or those that work with kids.

to think all those years (10 -18) as a kid i shot competition at an indoor range with cotton balls for hearing protection and a small exhaust fan for ventilation. (this might explain some things, eh )

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Old 12-17-2011, 07:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper03 View Post
fmj,

Now for a professional grandfather that picture of your son on the bench is priceless! Way to go DAD!
I do not think that children are ever too young to start basic weapon and firearms training. When my children were young enough to even know what a gun was we started. Later we had a wooden rifle that my son and two years later my daughter carried to the range when I went. The point was to teach them weapon safety. How to safely remove it from the case, muzzle safety and all. Followed by when each of them were 4-5 with a little rifle like the one in your picture (A Cricket) they began learning with the life rifle. I never have had any serious issues due to starting them early. Then came my grandchildren. I have a few that do not like to hunt because of killing anything but they still love to shoot and that is fine with Gramps!
Good job to all of you who are introducing your sons, daughters, grandchildren and wives to the sport!

03

Thanks man...i wished like hell i was digitally capable back when i was working with my eldest when he was but a youngin'.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:27 PM   #30
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Both indoor and outdoor have a risk - - - of course the outdoor range will have mother nature to blow and rain to wash but any good indoor range will have a ventilation system that will bring as much lead away from the shooting line ( and shooters ) as possible. The new requirements call for 50 CU FT per minute air flow ( 75 CU FT prefered ) for every SQ FT of area at the shooting line to be moving from behind the shooter to the target area. But when studies were done even with this flow lead styphnate and lead peroxide are found on any surface ( tables, floors, top of drink cans, clothing, shoes)

Before you take that drink go to a restroom and wash your hands and face ( and lips ) ASAP after leaving the line. The old wives tail was to wash in cold water to keep your pores closed - - - new research proves you need to wash in warm to midly hot water ( minimum of 15 seconds just like your kindergarden teacher said ) so that the pores can open and be flushed.

So what I'm trying to say is if a child is to young to keep thier hands away from their face they have no business at a shooting range!

This is an unseen danger and every adult has a duty to keep our children safe. I'm not trying to scare, I'm trying to give you the tools to keep safe.

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