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Old 12-16-2011, 08:03 AM   #11
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My wife and stepdaughter moved in with me when she was 5. Her mother would look at me like I was a total jack@ss when I would clean my guns in front of the child. Two years later, when she was seven I took them both out with me to the range and they both jumped in with both feet. Now the stepdaughter shoots trap in one of the local leagues and my wife is my hunting partner.

after a few months I found out why my wife gave me such dirty looks when I had the guns out around her child. It seems her father would take her to his gun club and let her run around unsupervised during his visitations. That came to a screeching halt when I confronted him about that. Random welfare checks followed soon after, and she would always be over at her grandmother's while he was there.

In the two years before they got into the shooting sports, I drilled firearms safety into their heads. By age 6 my stepdaughter could quote all of the rules of firearms safety, as could my wife. There are only 7 people in my life that I trust fully with a gun, they are two of them.

As to the OP. If I had been in that shop I would have done the same thing. Azzholes like that DO NOT deserve to have children, much less firearms. Stupid sh!t like that is a big part of the reason it is such a pain in the @ss to get a pistol permit in my home state. It is also the reason that so many states have laws requiring those gun locks, some both in AND out of the safe.

Jon, I hope the shop owner remembers him and refuses a sale for the safety of that child and others. I hate stupidity, and have to wonder if anyone else sees a child endangerment case in what occured. Sorry about the rant but, stupid people REALLY p!ss me off!

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Old 12-16-2011, 09:44 PM   #12
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There's some wiggle room because you know the level of maturity of your own kid...but toddler? I don't freakin think so.

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Old 12-16-2011, 11:03 PM   #13
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Jon, I hope the shop owner remembers him and refuses a sale for the safety of that child and others. I hate stupidity, and have to wonder if anyone else sees a child endangerment case in what occured. Sorry about the rant but, stupid people REALLY p!ss me off!
yeah they arent selling any firearms to that guy.

the kid was in the cling to daddy's leg stage barely walking and sticking everything in the mouth. definately not enough comprehension to understand the word danger much less know not to run in traffic.
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:05 PM   #14
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Was the kid pointing it at someone?
at his dad...

im not a good judge of toddler ages. but this one had the develepmont level of a kid just barely walking on his own.

one other thing. im no lawyer but from what i understand in wisconsin it is illegal to give a handgun to a child under 14 even with parental permission and supervision. but im no lawyer. all the gun ranges i attend do not allow children under 14 to shoot handguns. so there may be something to it. but im not 100% on that.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:12 AM   #15
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If the child was there very long there is a good possibility of lead poison from the lead potassinate that is expelled from the primer.

That is why the new OSHA and NRA rules say "no eating, drinking, smoking, putting on lipstick or chap stick" while on or near the firing line.

Lead potassinate will settle on any surface and if the child touches it and puts his / her hands in mouth they get contaminated.

If you are a male over 20 years old with a reasonably good diet ( not lacking in calcuim ) this will go into your blood stream with a half life of about 30 days so you would be clean in about 90 days.

But if you are under 20 or have a less than healthy diet or female your body will think it is calcium and it will go to your bones. Half life there is 30 years so you will be clean in about 90 years!

I do not allow any one under 16 on the line with out written permission from the parent and the parent must be present. I also make all people view the safety video at least once a year. I'm sure if the parent had come to my range this would not have happened.

I also make all under 12 on the range wear both ear plugs and ear muffs! I wish these rules would have been in place when I went to the police range with my dad in the early 1950s.

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Old 12-17-2011, 12:32 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwk4667
If the child was there very long there is a good possibility of lead poison from the lead potassinate that is expelled from the primer.

That is why the new OSHA and NRA rules say "no eating, drinking, smoking, putting on lipstick or chap stick" while on or near the firing line.

Lead potassinate will settle on any surface and if the child touches it and puts his / her hands in mouth they get contaminated.

If you are a male over 20 years old with a reasonably good diet ( not lacking in calcuim ) this will go into your blood stream with a half life of about 30 days so you would be clean in about 90 days.

But if you are under 20 or have a less than healthy diet or female your body will think it is calcium and it will go to your bones. Half life there is 30 years so you will be clean in about 90 years!

I do not allow any one under 16 on the line with out written permission from the parent and the parent must be present. I also make all people view the safety video at least once a year. I'm sure if the parent had come to my range this would not have happened.

I also make all under 12 on the range wear both ear plugs and ear muffs! I wish these rules would have been in place when I went to the police range with my dad in the early 1950s.
Are you a range officer? By any chance?
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Old 12-17-2011, 02:26 AM   #17
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at his dad...

im not a good judge of toddler ages. but this one had the develepmont level of a kid just barely walking on his own.

one other thing. im no lawyer but from what i understand in wisconsin it is illegal to give a handgun to a child under 14 even with parental permission and supervision. but im no lawyer. all the gun ranges i attend do not allow children under 14 to shoot handguns. so there may be something to it. but im not 100% on that.
I see. That does sound bad. If a person, no matter the age, has not been taught to handle a gun properly he shouldn't be handed one like that. It seems I would differ with several folks here on the proper age to teach kids how to handle and use guns safely and proficiently. In general, I believe kids should begin learning gun safety shortly after they learn to talk and they should be able to handle guns fairly proficiently at age 4-7 depending on the kid.
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Old 12-17-2011, 03:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonM View Post
at his dad...

im not a good judge of toddler ages. but this one had the develepmont level of a kid just barely walking on his own.

one other thing. im no lawyer but from what i understand in wisconsin it is illegal to give a handgun to a child under 14 even with parental permission and supervision. but im no lawyer. all the gun ranges i attend do not allow children under 14 to shoot handguns. so there may be something to it. but im not 100% on that.

Why i have an issue with state or fed law trying to govern parental duties!!

A 12 y/o handling a .357 mag.
Right , wrong or indifferent. The kid knows how to handle a firearm safely!

I realize there are MANY out there that DO NOT take their JOB as PARENT as seriously as some.
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:11 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by gwk4667 View Post
That is why the new OSHA and NRA rules say "no eating, drinking, smoking, putting on lipstick or chap stick" while on or near the firing line.

But if you are under 20 or have a less than healthy diet or female your body will think it is calcium and it will go to your bones. Half life there is 30 years so you will be clean in about 90 years!

I was also told to wash your hands and face and blow my nose after shooting.

I'm female. That info makes me nervous.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:56 PM   #20
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Yes I have an NRA Range Safety Officer certificate ( 2 day course about 12 hours total ) and I attended ( and graduated from ) the NRA Range Design, Develpoment and Management 5 day intensive course in Buffalo last year- - - - Great course, worth every penny spent and every minute spent as well.

My range is small and growing as I get funds as I'm not willing to borrow money in this economy!

Everyone who works at my range ( even if they are just mowing grass ) has an NRA Range Safety Officer certificate or they will not be hired!

With proper training and care you can be safe but if you don't know of the problem you can put yourself at risk. I have been to a range with the shooting line indoors shooting out the windows - - - people think all the lead goes out the window but they forget the lead potassinate from the primer and they have pots of chilli and drinks sitting out and smoking going on. There were at least 6 to 8 children under age 10 running all about, not handling guns but eating and drinking, that lead poisioning will last their lifetime!

I went to the head person and was told they had been doing it this way for years and they are a private club and as such believe they do not fall under regulation.

I feel the least of their concerns should be compliance - - I wonder how the children will be affected for the rest of their lives!

I left the range and will not go back!

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