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Old 11-16-2012, 01:38 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by pioneer461 View Post
I agree with gorknoids, 100%. No matter which stance you prefer, they are great for teaching basic target shooting, or competition.

I would not recommend concentrating on a proper stance while you are proned out behind a concrete planter box because of incoming 7.62x39 rounds at the local mall. I don't think the bad guys will wait while you get the proper stance, so it's a good idea to learn to shoot from all kinds of positions other than at the 15 yard line and on command. From behind cover, kneeling, prone, supine, strong hand, support hand, whatever.

100% agreed and the requirement to put rounds on target from multiple positions while doing the transitions is something that causes a lot Contractors with a civilian law enforcement background to bolo and get sent home for inability to meet contract shooting standards.

We work in pairs ... I need to know my partner can shoot - move - communicate at a high standard. BTW, on our hot, sandstorm prone range the target distance is 25 meters for the 9 mm part of weapons qual. All tables are strictly timed as well with no additional time allowance in the event of a weapon malfunction beyond a total failure to feed and inability to extract ... the clock keeps ticking otherwise. 4 postural changes during the course of fire.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:48 PM   #22
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Why is it that when you see new shooters they insist on arching their backs and absorb the recoil in their spine?


I try to teach a little lean forward and allow the body to absorb the majority of the recoil.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:53 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by KingTiger
Excellent thread, excellent posts! I'll contribute from the students perspective, any suggestions are greatly welcomed.

I've been trying to standardize on the Combat Isosceles stance for the last couple of months. I'm 5'6"/145 lbs., so I don't have as much "leverage" as others and it was recommended to me when I was trying to gain control of my full size .45 ACP. I noticed an immediate improvement (after I got my grip right) in accuracy & follow up shots with pistols with it for starters.

I then used it with my newly acquired M11/9 SMG. It seemed a natural for this application, so far I've kept my feet pretty much planted, but I can swivel from the hips to get about 120 degrees of target acquisition with good control.

A few weeks ago I took a tactical shotgun course. We engaged targets from behind cover and on the move, and also had to shoot off-hand. I had never shot a 12 GA off-hand, but after a couple of rounds it wasn't that bad (even with slug/buck rounds) and I didn't have to worry about repositioning my feet. The hardest thing for me was keeping my feet spread far enough and remembering to bend my knees.

I haven't had a chance to use it much with my carbine as I've mainly been shooting it off the bench so far.

In summary, it's been tuff to learn new techniques after 35 years, but the improvements have been obvious. I just hope it doesn't screw me up for dove season this fall. As some one stated, practice will be the solution.
Keep at it it took a long time for me to train out some bad habits for me that were born out of being comfortable.I am naturally (in a long gun)a left handed shooter and left eye dominant.So when I moved into the world of handguns I was extremely confused as I found that my right hand was the most comfortable to shoot with.Which still left me left eye dominant so that I was cross shooting.With suggestions from experienced shooters I was able to fix my cross shooting problem by doing one of two options ,the first I could train to use my left hand,the second I could train to use my right eye.I chose to do the later of the two and it improved my ability immensely.
I have changed my stance in much the same manner.Having a long relationship with long gun hunting I was used to weaver style shooting.Where it was great for hunting it did not make sense for self defense,a really good instructor pointed out to me the advantages of squaring up to face a threat.The amount of mobility it provided and the ability to acquire the target faster with better accuracy.
I trained and found my comfort level and the more I trained the more natural these things became.I am not the best nor do I have all the answers .I continue to take suggestions and continue to better myself.Out of all the things I know today one thing is for sure things like having to defend ones self ,seldom if ever,will ever be at a time and convenience of our choosing so it would be to our greatest advantage to train for the inconveniences.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:28 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by GDS View Post
DCJS,
"The shooter must be able to assume their stance instinctively, as a reflex action with minimal effort or conscious manipulation of their body."

...there is no ONE right way to shoot. The circumstances will always dictate the method: tactical, combat, or SD...


These are both salient points. The reflexive dynamics of stance/draw/fire action is important as a base model. Violence can erupt suddenly in an environment not of your choosing. Terrain, obstacles, bystanders, time-of-day, visibility and lighting, weather, how you are dressed, your state of health, the level of competence of your opponant, the adrenal effect and a host of unknown quantities can factor in.

An example: In the opening seconds of a night firefight in Vietnam--a react-to-ambush--one of my VN NCO's had his glasses knocked off as he dove for cover. He spent a few precious seconds retrieving them--because retrieving precious dropped eyewear was his instinctive first reaction--and it taught him a lesson about the necessity of wearing a neck strap and of priorities.

So you have to expect that unexpected things will happen. As a rule, I think it's important that you practice from a variety of positions, under as many different conditions as possible. Shooting from the left and right or over and through a barricade is good training, shooting from a crouch or from your knees, shooting effectively one-handed from both strong and support side. But this in no way should diminish the importance of achieving the instinctive reflexive base stance and the smooth kinetics of draw and fire. Reach that natural reactive stage and the rest will fall into place with repetition. Just my 2c.
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Last edited by 7point62; 12-01-2012 at 01:38 PM.
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