Tactical Response Training - Page 2
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of FirearmsTalk.com!    
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Training & Safety >

Tactical Response Training


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-17-2009, 05:02 PM   #11
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,062
Liked 271 Times on 194 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

Good points, Hydrashok. I lack your experience and am not as qualified as you are to judge Yeager's actions in Iraq.

Yeager has posted a video on YouTube defending the practice of instructors/cameramen standing downrange :
Many comments are posted to the video.

I commend you on your willingness to put your name on your statements.

I want you to know that I have read both Yeager's Iraq report and the contractor's findings long before this video issue surfaced, so I was not simply guessing about the facts.
Rentacop is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2009, 08:03 AM   #12
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Ubergopher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,216
Liked 16 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

...Wait...

In that video he basically says

"Making sure not to aim at a person down range will help you pull the trigger when you have to"...

Yeeeeeeeeah...

No way in hell I'll ever go there.
__________________
"This is not about land or money...but the one thing that no man should never be able to take from another man: the freedom to make his own choices about his life, where he'll live, how he'll live, how he'll raise his family. "

William Travis, The Alamo: 13 Days to Glory
Ubergopher is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2009, 06:02 AM   #13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,062
Liked 271 Times on 194 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

Ubergopher-
I agree with you guys on this range safety issue. I've seen too much unsafe gun handling to ever agree to stand beyond a firing line.
I hope Yeager stops this practice.
Rentacop is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2009, 04:01 PM   #14
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
layton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 568
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Just curious, when I went through basic in the 60's, on the range, there were people downrange marking targets for us, do they still do that? Does any one know what kind of protection they used downrange? I never went downrange, so I am curious. We would get to the range, then they would call out up targets, then ready on the firing line, then fire. Then they would give cease fire, then downrange they would pull the targets down and mark them, then raise and show the hits with a round black or white paddle. After basic and on the range we had electric pop ups at various distances.



Layton
layton is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2009, 03:41 AM   #15
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,062
Liked 271 Times on 194 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

Here's a link to the after action reports on Yeager's adventure in Iraq. If you study them, you'll see that some of the statements on the anti-Yeager site are not true...

Scroll down to the 2 AARs.

Anyone know who James Yeager is? - DFWstangs Forums

Is Yeager right to critisize others ? Read this :

From Time Magazine article :
Then team leader Johnson climbed out of Ahmelman's car and began firing in the air to warn other vehicles to stay clear - an act which clearly identified the convoy as contractors. "They rang the dinner bell for the bad guys,'' says ERSM staffer Scott Traudt, who was in the company's Baghdad headquarters at the time.

Working Vid Link :

Here's a working link to the " instructor down range " Video : http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/17/highly-controversial-training-video/

Last edited by Rentacop; 07-26-2009 at 03:00 AM. Reason: add info
Rentacop is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2009, 06:31 AM   #16
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
hydrashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Atlanta,TEXAS!
Posts: 705
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentacop View Post
Here's a link to the after action reports on Yeager's adventure in Iraq. If you study them, you'll see that some of the statements on the anti-Yeager site are not true...
Well, there's a lot of controversy surrounding Yeager's AARs... being there are claims that he fabricated them. If he didn't, then he'd have a heck of a libelous lawsuit claim. It's pretty far out there for someone to make the kinds of claims against Yeager if there was nothing to them. What would be the motivation behind it??

What it comes down to is this: are you questioning Yeager's credibility as an instructor or are you defending him as a human being?

I know you bought one of his DVDs. Good for you. Learn what you think is good, and throw out what you think is bad.

As far as his reputation, peoples' perception is their reality. You can attack or defend his character as you see fit. Everybody's not going to agree with you either way.

Personally, I prefer less drama.
__________________
-=Jerry A. Goodson=-

Tri-State Tactical
1010 N. Louise St.
Atlanta, Texas 75551
430-342-3376

http://www.3tactical.com
hydrashok is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2009, 11:38 AM   #17
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,062
Liked 271 Times on 194 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

hyrashok-
People make false claims all the time for no apparent reason. There is no reason to trust an anonymous web site like that.

If you read the AARs, you'll see that one is by ERSM and one by Yeager and they pretty much say the same thing. The big argument is about whether Yeager abandoned wounded comerades under fire or simply moved to safer cover. This has been debated on other gun forums a lot.

The anti-Yeager site could simply be in error as to the facts. That site appears to be an anonymous effort to strike back at Yeager for his critisisms of his former co-workers.

Some key facts here are 1) the Mercedes was disabled by the initial machine gun fire and so the convoy could not have simply driven out of the kill zone. 2) The three dead men were all hit in the initial fire and Yeager cannot be responsible for their deaths.
3) Johnson's firing into the air to keep people back may have tipped off the enemy that these cars were carrying contractors and led to the attack.

Yeager, like most people, is not entirely good or bad. He's a skilled instructor who believes in putting people downrange. He's an experienced high risk contractor with a controversial combat record.

I'm content to learn what I can from his DVDs and respect your right to refuse to do business with him.
Rentacop is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2009, 11:55 AM   #18
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
SGT-MILLER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,354
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Putting people downrange without a good reason (the risk outweighs the gain) is what ruins his credibility as an instructor in my book.

Doing that is a simple hollywood stunt to make him and his team look "hard" in front of the students. There is no reasonable explanation to do that.

I couldn't finish watching his video defending that practice. Once he started comparing putting a guy downrange with the risks of driving a car, I turned it off. He brags about being the safest training outfit out there, and I think he's full of it.

He's another hollywood instructor with an ego to boost.
__________________
"TRAIN WITH WHAT YOU HAVE, NOT WITH WHAT YOU WISH YOU HAVE."

Last edited by SGT-MILLER; 08-06-2009 at 12:08 PM.
SGT-MILLER is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2009, 03:33 AM   #19
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
hydrashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Atlanta,TEXAS!
Posts: 705
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentacop View Post
Yeager, like most people, is not entirely good or bad. He's a skilled instructor who believes in putting people downrange. He's an experienced high risk contractor with a controversial combat record.
I just re-read both AARs and reviewed the videos. I could pick apart HIS version of the AAR, but it would really serve no useful purpose. I wasn't there and I simply don't know enough about the incident to judge him one way or another.

Based on the video of the incident, I'm not really impressed. But I'm also not stupid enough to judge him solely on what I see in the video. I got bit the one time I thought police were shooting an unarmed man in the back as he was running.... I was WRONG!

I will say this; I'm not too impressed with his AAR. It was very self-serving and self-glorifying. He injected way too much "fluff" for it to be useful.

...as a matter of fact, in my spare time, I'll re-write his AAR. I'll post it up here strictly for entertainment value.
__________________
-=Jerry A. Goodson=-

Tri-State Tactical
1010 N. Louise St.
Atlanta, Texas 75551
430-342-3376

http://www.3tactical.com
hydrashok is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Response to No Guns Allowed signs.... Jay Concealed Carrying & Personal Protection 26 02-23-2009 10:47 PM
Shotgun Training: Home Defense, Tactical DSan Training & Safety 3 12-08-2008 07:09 AM
Tactical Training ElmerDuff Training & Safety 7 01-06-2008 09:37 PM
Training seminar for a new system of tactical shooting. Williams Associates Training & Safety 2 05-16-2007 10:11 AM



Newest Threads