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kdog 10-31-2009 09:35 AM

Shooting results are lousy
Hi guys,

at the moment I am a bit demotivated.
The last two time at the range, my shooting results had been really lousy.
My result have never been really good and I hardly get any close groups together, but I am not getting better at the moment, rather worse.

Here some facts:
Firearm: CZ75 Pre "B" in 9mm Luger
Grip: Trausch TJ75 for my small hands
Ammo: MagTech 124 Grain (have tried other ammo, same results)
Target Distance: 25m (approx. 25 yards)
Range type: Closed inside Range and a half open outside range

The round in the target are all over the upper area of the target. I mean it would be fine to shoot somebody, but that is not what I am practissing.
I can`t shoot at alternative distances at those ranges and the other ranges are to far away.

I pratice at home by dry firing, and the pistol is, for my feeling, very steady and not all over the place.

I go shooting twice per month in average.

Any advice?

Flint Rock 10-31-2009 12:52 PM

Well, let's assume for the moment that the gun is fine and that you are the one in need of help (sorry, that may have hurt). When I have a student that is a new shooter I start things a lot closer than 25 yards. A target at 25 yards is too far for the average shooter to shoot at and have satisfying hits on. If you were my student everything would start sitting at 5 yards, shooting off a rest. At that range you can get good hits which is great for your self confidence, and you develop an understanding of where your bullets are going vs. your aim point. If you can get a friend to watch the gun while you fire (Note - I said watch the gun, not the target) they can tell you if you are flinching when you press the trigger.
Once you master the 5 yard, sitting, using a rest, target, then you can stand up and try the two handed Weaver stance. Concentrate on you trigger press and focus on the front sight. I have had students that went through 50-100 rounds in the seated position before they settled down and started shooting groups at 5 yards that were acceptable.
When you are comfortable at 5 yards, step up to 10, but if the wheels start to come off the wagon, move the target in to 7 yards (which is common gun fighting range). 25 yards comes later. Never be embarrassed to use a rest, take your time, or use your sights!:)

skullcrusher 10-31-2009 02:23 PM

I agree that 25 meters (longer than 25 yds) is a long distance for someone starting out. At that distance, it is difficult to sight in a pistol especially if not shooting from a rest.

kdog 10-31-2009 02:37 PM

I have been shooting for over a year now, so I wouldn`t say I am a beginner.
And no feelings hurt. I know I am making the mistakes, I just don`t know wich ones.

It is pretty hard finding a shooting range here in germany, where I can do close target shooting, due to the stupid german gun laws and rules. We are stuck to the 25 meters. I would have to get a lucky day, when nobody else is at the range, so I could go close to the target.

skullcrusher 10-31-2009 03:06 PM

Try this target as a visual aid.

Correction Target

kdog 11-01-2009 06:55 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Yeah, I have tried to examine my mistakes using that target, but I can`t pinpoint the mistakes, because they are all over the place. See the screenshot.
Taking that target, I would be making three mistakes at the same time or after each other.

That would mean I would be heeling and pushing in anticipation of the recoil and breaking up my wrist at the same time.
How likely would that be?

willfully armed 11-01-2009 10:42 PM

Those "helpful" targets are indicative of problems with one handed grips. Specifically a right hand grip on the last one posted.

SGT-MILLER 11-03-2009 12:37 AM

Have you used a bench rest at that range to determine the mechanical accuracy of your handgun?

Once you determine the POA/POI of your handgun, you'll be able to determine what you can do to improve your groupings.

kdog 11-03-2009 05:53 PM


Originally Posted by SGT-MILLER (Post 181630)
Have you used a bench rest at that range to determine the mechanical accuracy of your handgun?

Once you determine the POA/POI of your handgun, you'll be able to determine what you can do to improve your groupings.

We tried the benchrest they have at the range, but it just dosn`t fit. The tables they have on the range are to low, the barrier ist far to low and the benchrest itself sucks and couldn`t be set for my CZ75.

I don`t doupt the accuracy of my CZ75, I am the problem.
I hit the target fairly constant. I think the size f the standard target here in germany is 50cm by 50cm with a center target of 26cm by 26cm.
The black area goes from ring 7 to the bulls eye and measures approx. 20cm.
So the actual target area I want to hit measures 20cm.
But I am getting to high. That means I am above the 26cm center target area.

Can you follow? Also this is on 25m, so the 26cm center target is a bit smaller...;-)

skullcrusher 11-03-2009 08:22 PM


Without actually having a firearms instructor watch your stance and form, it is very difficult to get a handle on any possible issues. Also, until you can get to a closer target and shoot from a bench rest of some sort, the accuracy of the arm itself can not be qualified.

Seems like there are those who have been attempting to help, but due to circumstances beyond your control, this assistance can't be practiced.

I suggest you take personal instruction at your range or a private session to weed out any obvious issues.

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