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Old 10-14-2013, 03:36 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by DeltaF
I was actually thinking the same thing. Are we talking store brand or Ben and Jerry's? Strawberry or rocky road? Iced milk or gelato? Doc, please explain this ice cream in detail so that we can properly judge our level of remorse for comparison. Actually, explanations are subjective to your own personal opinion. So what we need in order to properly judge this circumstance, is for you to provide each of us with a SAMPLE of the ice cream in question. Preferably pint sized or larger, so that we can get a real understanding of the ice cream on all emotional and psychological levels.
That sounds like a good plan to me. Larger sample size equals greater accuracy in data.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:05 PM   #82
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Guys-
I said in the origial statement that I didn't know what emotional problems I'd face after killing a criminal . I doubt I'd have trouble bringing myself to shoot an attacker justifiably . Why ? Because I'm not conflicted about what is moral and what isn't .

Years ago, I recall hearing an interview with a judge who had sent 40 men to death row . The interviewer asked the judge how he felt about it and he replied, " If it would save one good innocent person, I'd kill a thousand of 'em " .
That may not sound good in today's fuzzy philosophical climate but it made brutal sense . The judge knew that not all lives have the same value .

It is fashionable today to act as if the death of a human monster is a tragedy . It is almost required by law that you tremble in fear as you pull the trigger but....In the real world, you stand a better chance of winning a fight if you feel moral outrage instead of fear and act on logic instead of emotion .

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Old 10-14-2013, 10:19 PM   #83
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Guys-
I said in the origial statement that I didn't know what emotional problems I'd face after killing a criminal . I doubt I'd have trouble bringing myself to shoot an attacker justifiably . Why ? Because I'm not conflicted about what is moral and what isn't .

Years ago, I recall hearing an interview with a judge who had sent 40 men to death row . The interviewer asked the judge how he felt about it and he replied, " If it would save one good innocent person, I'd kill a thousand of 'em " .
That may not sound good in today's fuzzy philosophical climate but it made brutal sense . The judge knew that not all lives have the same value .
well that jusdge onle sentenced them to death, he didn't actually do the killing. huge difference. just because it's the moral thing to do, does not change the fact that it will change you.

i saw how killing another person changed a friend of mine. i saw personally the damage it did to him and his family. he was young LEO and had only been with the police department a few years when he killed a man coming at him with a knife and wouldn't drop it after being told to many times, "Jimmy" shot the many twice in the chest and the man died a short time later. "Jimmy" was never the same easy going and good natured person he was before that night. that shooting was a righteous and justified shooting, but it was in some ways very hard to convince him it was. he was never the same person i use to know and joke around with, after that night.

i have to agree with DeltaF, that only a sociopath can kill and not have any emotions about it.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:33 PM   #84
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Axxe55-
We're mixing two separate issues here : Issue #1 : The readiness to use deadly force if need be. Issue #2 : The emotonal toll one suffers after using justified deadly force that results in death .

FWIW : This subject of sociopaths is discussed extensively in On Killing by Col. David Grossman .

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Old 10-14-2013, 10:49 PM   #85
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Ive polled my wife on what she would eat to survive if she had to. Shes not very bold and swears she would starve to death before eating bugs, worms snakes, rats and possibly even humans. Myself, I think all but the last one are a better option than death if I can help it, cannibalism wouldnt be out of the question acording to what the circumstances are, I wanna live!

I say all this because Im pretty sure that I will do whatever my instincts say to do to live to fight another day, bar none! Whatever means the bad guy better be one step ahead of me because the second I fear imminent loss of my life, whatever is putting me at risk must and will die. At that moment Im Judge Jury and Executioner, fear is a very powerful instinct and has a way of inspiring survival more often than not if youve given enough thought to SD for your instinct to have a means of delivery!

What happens in your head after can certainly be traumatic but its a damn sight better than dying. People have a learned helplessness now a days that only prepares them to dial 911 and cower until or if help arrives! I hope I never have to let my instinct go to town on anyone but Id like to think I would live or die trying!

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Old 10-14-2013, 11:26 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentacop
I should clarify my thinking by saying that my lack of moral qualms is based on the idea that the person deserves what he is getting . I'd have great difficulty doing any kind of wrong to an innocent or virtuous person . A sociopath simply has no feelings for others and I am not a sociopath .

Do you guys think of Richard Speck, Charles Manson, Charles Whitman and wonder if you could shoot them if they were attacking you ? If so, I think it would be good to explore the morality of defense further and try to resolve such conflicts so you will be ready if the need to shoot in self-defense arises .
If you must hunt down and stop an active shooter in a building, you will be at a disadvantage if you operate on the instinctive resistance to killing or on a hazy idea that " killing is wrong no matter what " .
"When the Mind is "right" the Sword is "right"....

I know At least 1 person on here that can tell me what Author/Book/"person" that is from...(I Know the answer)
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:27 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentacop
Axxe55- We're mixing two separate issues here : Issue #1 : The readiness to use deadly force if need be. Issue #2 : The emotonal toll one suffers after using justified deadly force that results in death . FWIW : This subject of sociopaths is discussed extensively in On Killing by Col. David Grossman .
If you've read that book you oughtta know that there's no way to know how you'll react to pulling the trigger, indeed whether you would be able to pull the trigger to begin with, until you actually have to do it.

You also ought to realize the massive amount of physical, emotional and even distance in time of order to time of act that a judge has between him and the condemned makes that comparison a radically poor one to looking someone in the face at 7 yards or less and squeezing the trigger multiple times.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:38 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JW357

Now hold on... What kind of ice cream are we talking about here? That's a pretty important detail...
I concur! Ice Cream changes Everything!!!
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:39 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaF

I was actually thinking the same thing. Are we talking store brand or Ben and Jerry's? Strawberry or rocky road? Iced milk or gelato?

Doc, please explain this ice cream in detail so that we can properly judge our level of remorse for comparison.

Actually, explanations are subjective to your own personal opinion. So what we need in order to properly judge this circumstance, is for you to provide each of us with a SAMPLE of the ice cream in question. Preferably pint sized or larger, so that we can get a real understanding of the ice cream on all emotional and psychological levels.
Plus you need a "Second Sample Batch" for Laboratory Control group comparison!
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:40 PM   #90
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i have to beg to differ on Charles Whitman being a sociopath. due to him having a brain tumor found during his autopsy.

here's a link that can explain it much better than i can. also read the part about the Connoly Commision findings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman#Autopsy

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