SGT-MILLER Training Thread #2: Adapting - Page 2
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SGT-MILLER Training Thread #2: Adapting


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Old 04-16-2009, 01:01 AM   #11
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It would be on page 2, halfway down.


Also here is the main site of the PMA (Police Marksman Association) in case you are interested

Police Marksman
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:15 AM   #12
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Second page of this right? http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/OIS-%20What%20We%20Didn%27t%20Know%20Hurt%20Us.pdf

I'm not seeing it, I think I might be blind. All I know is most engagements happen at conversation range. In the 2000 study it's 69% of less than three yards being common.

There more data here, http://www.forcescience.org/. I'm getting to lazy however, and can't seem to find any more data on this.

According to this: http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/1227784-New-tests-Even-inexperienced-shooters-can-be-fast-accurate-when-shooting-cops/

I think they are aware of this situation.

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Old 04-16-2009, 01:21 AM   #13
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I also noticed form your other posts that you own an XD .40 sub-compact.

I must restate that there is nothing wrong with smaller sized pistols. I am hoping that you aren't feeling offended by this thread in some way because of the fact that you own a sub compact, but I am just stating the basic facts.

It is possible to carry a full sized weapon around, and many people do it on a daily basis. There is no arguing the fact that a full size handgun will outperform, and provide more flexibility then a sub-compact will any day.

I also urge you that you understand the limitations of your sub-compact pistol and train accordingly.

Another tidbit of knowledge is that fact that since most subcompact pistols are just cut-down versions of the full sized models, there have been occasional reliability issues. For the most part, they have all been taken care of, but it's still wise to be watchful for them.
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT-MILLER View Post
I also noticed form your other posts that you own an XD .40 sub-compact.

I must restate that there is nothing wrong with smaller sized pistols. I am hoping that you aren't feeling offended by this thread in some way because of the fact that you own a sub compact, but I am just stating the basic facts.

It is possible to carry a full sized weapon around, and many people do it on a daily basis. There is no arguing the fact that a full size handgun will outperform, and provide more flexibility then a sub-compact will any day.

I also urge you that you understand the limitations of your sub-compact pistol and train accordingly.

Another tidbit of knowledge is that fact that since most subcompact pistols are just cut-down versions of the full sized models, there have been occasional reliability issues. For the most part, they have all been taken care of, but it's still wise to be watchful for them.
No on the contrary I'm more interested in what you have to say. I think I just got sidetracked by that data. I'm just wondering if carrying a full sized pistol is technically necessary. As of right now I'm in a conceal mentality, I'll have to pick up a larger gun and find out how it plays out. However I'm still weighing the overall need for a large gun. I think even Ayoob carries a 38 snubnose, most of the time.

At such close ranges I'm not sure the extra size of a gun is worth the hassle. According to the previous link that I gave you, even amateurs can be as good as a champion at such close ranges.
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:37 AM   #15
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Here's some videos of some gunfights. You can estimate the distances yourself, and while this doesn't cover ALL of the gunfights that occur, they still paint a decent picture.


First shootout (I estimate the distance to be 7-10 yards easy)


Pay close attention to how far the officers are away from the van. My guess would be around 5-7 yards at a minimum (probably more. I'm not the best estimator)


I estimate the exchange of gunfire in this video to be anywhere from maybe 6-7 yards to about 15-18 yards.


I would also estimate the distance to be more around 15-20 yards at a minimum here.

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Old 04-16-2009, 01:41 AM   #16
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Carrying a full size pistol is not absolutely needed by any means. A compact (pocket) pistol will work just fine.

The main problem is people do not understand the limitations of those class of handguns. There is a culture of "I can't carry a full-size. It's too big.". It's easier to carry a full sized pistol than most people think.

It's all up to what you feel is needed as a defense weapon. Be sure to understand your limitations of your weapon fully. Also, don't dismiss the idea of carrying something in a full size. It can be done.

I'm quoting from Clint Smith: "A big gun is big to carry, but it is also big in a fight."
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:47 AM   #17
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Geez Miller!! Just watched the first vid and I've gotta start carrying more ammo!!!
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT-MILLER View Post
Carrying a full size pistol is not absolutely needed by any means. A compact (pocket) pistol will work just fine.

The main problem is people do not understand the limitations of those class of handguns. There is a culture of "I can't carry a full-size. It's too big.". It's easier to carry a full sized pistol than most people think.

It's all up to what you feel is needed as a defense weapon. Be sure to understand your limitations of your weapon fully. Also, don't dismiss the idea of carrying something in a full size. It can be done.

I'm quoting from Clint Smith: "A big gun is big to carry, but it is also big in a fight."
What do you think of seasonal wear? I have heard some people carry larger pistols during winter due to you know the thicker clothes.

I guess I do get what you mean adapt to the pistol whether through clothes or habit, but I think it might be to much for me at the get go I might work up to it though. Start with winter carry and work my way up to see how it is.

As crazy as it is, I was planning to carry multiple guns anyway, cause I do understand the limitation, I was going to get around this buy carrying multiple. If I add a large pistol in there I'll be up to four guns.
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:56 AM   #19
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Yea. That LEO in that first video was rockin' and rollin' for sure.
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:01 AM   #20
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In the summer, it's harder to carry a full size so that can present an issue. If all you can manage to carry is your sub-compact, by all means, do it and don't feel undergunned in the least.

If you already own an XD .40 sub compact, I would recommend getting the service XD .40 (4 inch barrel). This way you will maintain commonality between the two weapons, and you won't have to mentally "re-train" every time you switch out. Plus the magazines are interchangable between the two.

Wintertime allows for easier carry of full sized weapons, but you can conceal something rather large by just wearing the right sized clothes (i.e. not too tight or short fitting).
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