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-   -   Rude awakenings (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f55/rude-awakenings-42854/)

IGETEVEN 05-22-2011 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canebrake (Post 509967)
Ah....my favorite! The Mozambique Drill.

Put them in the coke bottle and all's well!

+ Infinity Cane. :cool:

I say pretty damn good shooting for a BlindOldMan. :eek:

Yep, that is my briefcase! ;)

BlindOldMan 05-22-2011 02:34 PM

Rude awakenings
 
Went to the range yesterday and had some rude awakenings. With 5 rounds in two magazines, I had to shoot all 10 rounds in 10 seconds. Sounds easy right? Looking at videos, it seems most folks can do this in about 5 seconds. Switching the magazine eats up 2 seconds. Keeping track of the number of rounds fired is imperative if you switch with one round in the magazine, but even with just 6 rounds to track it was easy to miscount (maybe next time I'll take off my shoes so that I can see my toes and help with the count).

All those misses to the left of the silhouette are my first attempts. At that range (about 5yds) under my regular aimed firing I can pretty much hit the bullseye at will. Put in the time pressure and my shots go *very* wide. I.e., I would have failed a CCW test.

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1306069834

So...
1) Even with time pressure, don't rush the shots. Ten seconds can be an eternity if you're not rushing. It goes in a heartbeat if you're causing yourself to fumble the switch or just plain forget basic shooting.

2) Having "muscle memory" of the correct grip is imperative. It was pointed out that my grip on the second magazine was consistently incorrect (support hand was cupped too low, not enough grip pressure, etc.) To improve this, my friend suggested (with a safe, unloaded gun and no ammo), closing my eyes, picking up the gun and by feel alone getting my grip perfect. Then do the magazine switch. Then perhaps fill out a calculus test or drive around the city. Then open my eyes and check my grip.

3) During the first magazine switch I failed to keep the muzzle downrange :O. That's a biggie. I didn't do it anytime after that, but the mere fact that I did this was a rude, rude awakening.

Dillinger 05-22-2011 02:53 PM

While the actions might have been different, I do believe that the Rude Awakening you speak of would be that poor bastard with the paper gun pointed towards you. :eek::eek:

That's some pretty darn good shooting for all that was going "wrong" in your mind. I would not put so much pressure on yourself and look at what went right.

I can say with utmost certainty that I would NOT want you practicing that drill with me as a down range target. :D

JD

BlindOldMan 05-22-2011 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 509651)
While the actions might have been different, I do believe that the Rude Awakening you speak of would be that poor bastard with the paper gun pointed towards you. :eek::eek:

That's some pretty darn good shooting for all that was going "wrong" in your mind. I would not put so much pressure on yourself and look at what went right.

I can say with utmost certainty that I would NOT want you practicing that drill with me as a down range target. :D

JD

:) Thank you so much; your comment made my day. I need to say that this was at an indoor range though... So no sun or glare, no wind, no dust, no perspiration dripping into your eyes.

CA357 05-22-2011 03:40 PM

So, we live and learn. Practice some more, but don't beat yourself up. We mere mortals tend to put more pressure on ourselves than we should. I doubt that I'd have done as well.

big shrek 05-22-2011 11:36 PM

I've practiced triple-tap all my gun-firing life. Two to the chest, one to the head.
The chest shots slow the BG's down so you can take that extra split-second in aiming to put the third shot right between their eyes :)

I started doing that after watching a Magnum PI episode when I was a kid...
old guy was blowing holes in the bathtub wall doing TT drills while he was taking a bath :)
his explaination of WHY he shot that way made sense, and I first tried it out with a "Star Trek Flying Disk Gun"
while we were blasting each other. The human response, even to plastic disks, is interesting to say the least.

Pistol training in the Army by an old Vietnam-era top kick refined the practice until it became second nature.

The bottom line...Practice, Practice, Practice...and then Practice some more.
Make the same movements to do the same things repeatedly until you no longer have to think about it, you just DO IT,
and you are accurate doing it.

Oh, and join IPSC or one of the other practical shooting groups.
There is no non-military training out there that will help you more.

AOK 05-23-2011 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlindOldMan (Post 509642)
Went to the range yesterday and had some rude awakenings. With 5 rounds in two magazines, I had to shoot all 10 rounds in 10 seconds. Sounds easy right? Looking at videos, it seems most folks can do this in about 5 seconds. Switching the magazine eats up 2 seconds. Keeping track of the number of rounds fired is imperative if you switch with one round in the magazine, but even with just 6 rounds to track it was easy to miscount (maybe next time I'll take off my shoes so that I can see my toes and help with the count).

All those misses to the left of the silhouette are my first attempts. At that range (about 5yds) under my regular aimed firing I can pretty much hit the bullseye at will. Put in the time pressure and my shots go *very* wide. I.e., I would have failed a CCW test.

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/...g?t=1306069834

So...
1) Even with time pressure, don't rush the shots. Ten seconds can be an eternity if you're not rushing. It goes in a heartbeat if you're causing yourself to fumble the switch or just plain forget basic shooting.

2) Having "muscle memory" of the correct grip is imperative. It was pointed out that my grip on the second magazine was consistently incorrect (support hand was cupped too low, not enough grip pressure, etc.) To improve this, my friend suggested (with a safe, unloaded gun and no ammo), closing my eyes, picking up the gun and by feel alone getting my grip perfect. Then do the magazine switch. Then perhaps fill out a calculus test or drive around the city. Then open my eyes and check my grip.

3) During the first magazine switch I failed to keep the muzzle downrange :O. That's a biggie. I didn't do it anytime after that, but the mere fact that I did this was a rude, rude awakening.

That looks like you had some good quality practice there to me.

About two years ago I started taking formal defensive firearms or private instruction every couple of months. Going into the classes I thought I was all set when it came to shooting. Heck, I could stand there and shoot at a rate of one shot per second and blow the bullseye out inside 25 feet all day long. The instructor pulled me aside after about an hour of the class and talked to me about what good does putting the same exact hole in a person repeatedly. You only end up with one hole. He pushed me outside of my comfort zone to shoot faster. As my shots started getting away from me a little I slowed it down a fraction. As it came back I pushed myself some more.

You need to push yourself out of your comfort zone if you want to get better and it looks like you are doing that perfectly. That's still good shooting by the way. Keep shooting at that rate and as you get better push yourself some more.

In regards to your #2, pushing yourself with dry practice can help immensely.

There are different school of thought when it comes to where your muzzle is pointing when conducting an emergency reload. Some think the gun should be pointed down range while others such as myself brings the gun up into my "workspace" and the gun actually pointing up on an angle parallel to my body. Either way, the point is with proper training (and proper execution) it's not necessarily wrong if your gun is not pointing downrange.

Best of luck in your continues training!

canebrake 05-23-2011 01:29 AM

Ah....my favorite! The Mozambique Drill.

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...biquedrill.gif

Looks like a dead BG, no shame there.

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...00118-1907.jpg

In rapid defensive shooting there are no fliers, just OODA loop resets!

Yo homie, that my briefcase?



Put them in the coke bottle and all's well!

http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/v...0_11_501_3.jpg

robocop10mm 05-23-2011 04:39 PM

An old (archeic) IPSC drill is called an El Presidente. 3 targets, 10 yards. On the start signal, draw, shoot each of the 3 targets with 2 shots, reload, shoot each of the targets 2 more times. 12 shots from the holster with a reload. A Grand Master level shooter can do this in under 4 seconds. I am barely acceptable for my class at 7 3/4 seconds.

Very doable in under 10 seconds.

BlindOldMan 05-24-2011 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robocop10mm (Post 510268)
An old (archeic) IPSC drill is called an El Presidente. 3 targets, 10 yards. On the start signal, draw, shoot each of the 3 targets with 2 shots, reload, shoot each of the targets 2 more times. 12 shots from the holster with a reload. A Grand Master level shooter can do this in under 4 seconds. I am barely acceptable for my class at 7 3/4 seconds.

Very doable in under 10 seconds.

:(

I have a LONG way to go... I can barely finish 10 shots in 10 seconds, and only at 5 yards. Going into this training I knew I had months of practice ahead. Sometimes it gets a bit discouraging, but I'm comforted knowing that the masters put in years and years of practice to get to their level.

7.75 seconds for the above? You have my admiration. How long did it take to attain this level? Any tips that you can share? I know practice, practice, practice is the key but also am thoroughly and sincerely grateful for any bits of wisdom or hard-earned lore that you don't mind sharing.


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